NSF CAREER Grant UPDATE Thread

[professing]

She said the size of the award was a factor - I wish I would have known as I would revised the budget to meet their needs; good lesson to learn. Good luck to all those seeking such an award, and I wish you all a better outcome.

this is the kind of unfairness i was alluding to... there is this sense of "insider knowledge" that many of us don't get along the way, and, supposedly, a PO/PM is supposed to help you "understand" if you get the chance to form a relationship with them. i also didn't know about award size and one webinar said not to consider this (just apply for what you need) while others later also informed me award size mattered.

best of luck and glad you have another opportunity. also, wishing you wellness.

[professing]

@JCu16 & @fizzycist Congrats!

[polly_mer]

She said the size of the award was a factor - I wish I would have known as I would revised the budget to meet their needs; good lesson to learn. Good luck to all those seeking such an award, and I wish you all a better outcome.

this is the kind of unfairness i was alluding to... there is this sense of "insider knowledge" that many of us don't get along the way, and, supposedly, a PO/PM is supposed to help you "understand" if you get the chance to form a relationship with them. i also didn't know about award size and one webinar said not to consider this (just apply for what you need) while others later also informed me award size mattered.

Can you get a mentor or three who will help with both the necessary relationship building and providing feedback on your materials before you submit them?

I'm thinking of folks who regularly serve on the panels and know what typically works.  Perhaps a colleague down the hall could help or a grad school/postdoc mentor who already has invested in you and wants to succeed.

Webinars are good for the basics on how the formal process should work.  An individual who knows how the process does work and can get you integrated into the community to know the unwritten norms is a key factor to success for most people.

[JCu16]

@JCu16 & @fizzycist Congrats!

Thanks!

@da457, sorry to hear that this attempt didn't work out and hope that the comments are useful enough to allow for improvements for your next attempt. I know that insider knowledge problem - not coming from the US originally (Ph.D. overseas) it has been tough to really get a feel for how the system works, and has been a struggle to get that traction, even in how different the grant writing style is here (or even the job application process - had no success until I saw what they were looking for).

[fizzycist]

@JCu16 & @fizzycist Congrats!

Thanks professing!

I understand your frustration. Like I said earlier in the thread, the sort of stories I hear about helpful POs giving inside info have never materialized for me. And most advice I receive from senior people ends up being off target for my own exact situation.

This, I have mostly been learning through trial and error. It is not very efficient, but I find it I just apply for a huge number of things I slowly learn what works for me. YMMV!

BTW, you probably know already, but for dollar amount for career (or any nsf proposal), you can look up previous awards in your area on fastlane.

[da457]

Thanks @JCu16, @professing, @fizzycist, and @polly_mer for your support, ideas, and insights. Unfortunately in my division, they have not funded a CAREER in five years, and I discovered some structural reasons for that but that's a longer, possibly idiosyncratic story to my division. Thus, most of the funding data I have is unfortunately limited and outdated, but I will definitely be modifying that in light of this new information.

I had a very nice, very helpful conversation with the PD last week to debrief on the CAREER - I was very touched as she took over an hour with me to help me figure things out more clearly. The reason it took so long to reject is that she was really trying to fund it as it was competitive but could not find co-funders which made it difficult. She was really helpful in where I could improve the grant and I have already contacted a mentor to give me some thoughts, hopefully it works out! She also encouraged me to apply for the COVID RAPID as she thought my things fit perfectly into that call, and so something really good came out both for the short-term and the long-term, and she did try everything she could do to make it work. It all boiled down to one reviewer who was probably reading this in an understandably exhausted state, and my grant was not exactly a page turner and understandably dense, so what mainly came out of this was to spend this effort really polishing its presentation and making it clearer to understand and addressing some small quibbles.

In terms of insider knowledge and the like, I am uber uber pragmatic, so my view is that this is an unfortunate an inevitable reality and I just gotta do my best to figure out how to navigate it. That may very well mean I may miss out again, but I have tried to put it into context in that a) I am in a field where funding is limited and I do not need so much to advance my research and b) I am in a place where they want me to bring ample funding. Thus, I have found it more in my control to a) keep fighting for and finding ways to bootstrap smaller things together and b) educate my department (based on hard data) that what they are asking me to bring is not possible in my field (it is about 2-3 std deviations away from the mean funding for a grant in my field). That seems to have worked, but I am at peace if it does not because I can only do what I can, and frankly, I will not sacrifice time with my children and family to churn out that one extra grant. I know that means keep my grants lower, but I have decided that if I have marginal time, it goes to them and I am more adamant about that in light of current events. I have just made that decision for myself.

In short, I will do what I can to improve my chances (talk to mentors, get advice from PD, fastlane sleuth even more, etc), with the recognition that it may not work out for a variety of reasons that may or may not be outside of my control. If it does not, I am ok with it because I know I will spent my time where it mattered for me: towards things I could control more (research output, bootstrapping based on small opportunities that people encourage me to apply for, getting information where I could, etc) and towards those things that matter to me most (my family). Overall, of course disappointed, but at peace because I am doing everything I can and if that means the chips don't fall my way, then so be it - cannot create chips I simply don't have :).

Onward and upward and thanks all for your ideas - I have learned a TON seeing responses to my posts as well as those from others. Hope everyone is healthy and safe!

[molebleeze]

I have been quietly reading posts here and it has been quite helpful and comforting during the waiting process. I was contacted by the PO end of February and sent in my abstract & revised budget. Yesterday, I saw my status changed to Recommended. However, today, the status was back to pending. Has anyone experienced this before? The waiting process is really excruciating.

[JCu16]

Hi Molebreeze

It tends to go through a series of status changes as it moves from recommended to awarded. Don't worry too much, if you've seen that recommended it is extremely unlikely to bounce out at that point. Have they released your reviews (that tells you that its past the PO step and the Division director approval and on to DGA)? I'm sure it is all just normal procedure.

In news from my end - awarded as of today, so it is official. Amazed that the whole process moved so fast (notice of recommendation on the 6th), but very excited to move forward to move toward recruiting the graduate students for the project. Really appreciate the kind words and encouragement from those here, which has been a real stress reliever. I'll certainly be hanging around the forum moving forward.

[mamselle]

Glad to hear of the progress you're making, and glad to have you here.

Will the pandemic issues affect your work in the short or long term, or can you do your setup without being in place as you begin?

M.

[JCu16]

Thanks M,

Fortunately my work is pretty much all possible remote, besides meeting with students, and we can work around this in the meantime. Naturally given the disruptions and the situation definitely are a drain on productivity. My field is primarily computational/analytic (though scale of the data I work with is on the order of hundreds terabytes - this grant will support work with nearly a petabyte of data from a model), so as long as the servers stay up and I can get access through the firewall, everything will continue to proceed. I also put the start date into the summer, as I didn't want to have to write grant reports during the tail end of semester. 

I'm on a 2/2 loading at an R2 (reduced from a standard 3/3 thanks to course buyouts from other funding), so teaching classes online has been fairly time consuming since we shifted, so that's probably the main drain for me and slow me down. I really pity those who are in the lab fields (including my wife who is doing a bio Ph.D.), as this virus is going to be so disruptive, and take so long to spin back up.

[molebleeze]

Hi JCu16,

Thanks for sharing your experience. And congratulations on the official award. It's great to have you hanging around here to help. My reviews have not been released yet. Finger crossed until the award becomes official.

Hi Molebreeze

It tends to go through a series of status changes as it moves from recommended to awarded. Don't worry too much, if you've seen that recommended it is extremely unlikely to bounce out at that point. Have they released your reviews (that tells you that its past the PO step and the Division director approval and on to DGA)? I'm sure it is all just normal procedure.

In news from my end - awarded as of today, so it is official. Amazed that the whole process moved so fast (notice of recommendation on the 6th), but very excited to move forward to move toward recruiting the graduate students for the project. Really appreciate the kind words and encouragement from those here, which has been a real stress reliever. I'll certainly be hanging around the forum moving forward.

[J.dodo1988]

Congrats on those who have received the award! And hope the life under the pandemic cloud is good!
I have not received any status change or heard back from the PD. But the start date of my proposal is almost passed. Does this mean an automatic rejection?

Hi JCu16,

Thanks for sharing your experience. And congratulations on the official award. It's great to have you hanging around here to help. My reviews have not been released yet. Finger crossed until the award becomes official.

[javen]

My status is still pending. I am not sure if it is a good idea to contact the Program Officer now.

[JCu16]

Congrats on those who have received the award! And hope the life under the pandemic cloud is good!
I have not received any status change or heard back from the PD. But the start date of my proposal is almost passed. Does this mean an automatic rejection?

Hi JCu16,

Thanks for sharing your experience. And congratulations on the official award. It's great to have you hanging around here to help. My reviews have not been released yet. Finger crossed until the award becomes official.

Not necessarily, depends a little on program officer load. The fact they are still holding onto it means there is a chance, and they might be trying to find the funds for it. The start date thing is confusing, as it seems to be more flexible than I thought at least.

[anxiety_rising]

Mine is within EAR and is still pending. My status date changed a few days ago so I contacted the program manager to figure out what was going on. Unfortunately, his reply was that my proposal was going to be rejected. It was my first try so I am proud that it made it this far. Best of luck to everyone else still waiting for news and good luck to all of us trying again in July.