Dog to English Translator

[archaeo42]

Dog friends, help me out. My friend adopted a young male dog about 6 months ago. He is mostly well-behaved, but...he's a biter. He's bitten both my friend and her mom, who lives with my friend and has dementia, several times. The bites have broken the skin in a couple of instances; the mom refuses to leave the house for anything, including medical care, so they've been treating her bite with hydrogen peroxide and antibacterial cream and bandages. My friend is a pianist who relies on her hands for her work, and she also has students in the house. At first she thought the dog's biting only occurred when someone pet him in a certain spot, but now it has become more frequent and random. The vet has not found anything in the dog that could be causing him pain at the bite-triggering spot. My friend is unwilling to bring in a trainer, probably mostly because of cost, but also because of Covid-19. 

For me, the solution is obvious: he needs to be euthanized. But how can I convince my friend of this?

Has she tried any behavioral interventions? You don't mention any. Puppies at 6 month are also still teething.

[bibliothecula]

She's tried shaking his scruff and saying "no." He's not 6 months old--she's had him for 6 months. He's probably about 2.

[smallcleanrat]

Could the dog be anxious or pent up? Is he getting enough exercise and play time?

Do the bites really just come out of nowhere or does the dog give signs of being on edge or uncomfortable first?

[bibliothecula]

Those are all good questions. He gets a lot of exercise and attention. The bites are coming out of nowhere. Petting, then biting. Reaching towards him, then biting. Moving around in an area he's in, then biting. She thought it was maybe a territorial thing, but it's become wider and even less predictable.

[Thursday's_Child]

Could this be a dominance thing?  As in dog has decided that he's the alpha and is enforcing it?  If so, you need a dog psych consult to determine if the behavior can be modified.

Regardless, until this gets figured out, I think she needs to muzzle him except at mealtimes.

[bibliothecula]

I'll suggest the muzzle again. I'm worried that he'll bite her badly before she can get him to an expert, or that she'll decide that an expert is too expensive.

[archaeo42]

I'll suggest the muzzle again. I'm worried that he'll bite her badly before she can get him to an expert, or that she'll decide that an expert is too expensive.

If the dog really is unpredictable, ask your friend about how she'd feel about the cost of a lawsuit if the dog bit someone...especially a child that might be face level. An expert will be cheaper in the long run.

[nebo113]

Those are all good questions. He gets a lot of exercise and attention. The bites are coming out of nowhere. Petting, then biting. Reaching towards him, then biting. Moving around in an area he's in, then biting. She thought it was maybe a territorial thing, but it's become wider and even less predictable.

I recently was adopted by a pound puppy, about a year old and an exuberant 20 pound bundle of energy.  I quickly discovered that he has trigger points.  For example, it took several hours, literally, to get a collar on him.  Apparently, in his previous life, things had been forced on him, like collars.  He also has issues with his paws, as do many dogs.  When triggered, which is less often in the three months he has owned me, he jerks, jumps, and snaps, though he doesn't seem to be trying to bite.  In that, I am fortunate.  So my suggestions are:  be aware of trigger points and try to avoid them.  talk monotonously to him if you 're trying to get him to do something that involves a trigger...and give treats.  Now, for an alternate, and sad scenario:  My cousin and her brother adopted a canine who had food trigger issues....and could not adapt to the male human in the house:  biting.  Nothing they did could overcome that.  They returned him to the shelter...and the shelter had worked diligently with them to ameliorate the situation, but understood that it simply wasn't working.  Regardless of what you all do, it is a difficult, sad situation.  However, if you do euthanize him, please don't tell us.  While I won't blame you, during these stressful times, I will just dissolve into tears.  And my heart goes out to all of you.

[Parasaurolophus]

Could the dog be anxious or pent up?

FWIW, if anyone here wants or needs a recommendation for an excellent, conscientious group of trainers specializing in anxiety in dogs (especially separation anxiety), send me a PM. They do both in-person and online training and coaching.

At first she thought the dog's biting only occurred when someone pet him in a certain spot, but now it has become more frequent and random. The vet has not found anything in the dog that could be causing him pain at the bite-triggering spot. My friend is unwilling to bring in a trainer, probably mostly because of cost, but also because of Covid-19. 

For me, the solution is obvious: he needs to be euthanized. But how can I convince my friend of this?

To my mind, euthanization is a last resort, and finances should not really enter into it (they should enter into the decision to get a pet, however).

Before that, I'd highly recommend finding an experienced and knowledgeable animal behaviourist to work with the dog for a while to try to identify the cause of the biting behaviour. I'd also recommend working with an experienced and knowledgeable trainer, but the trick there is to find someone who's good (and, sadly, most are not; one clue is whether they use negative reinforcement. If they do, they aren't the right person.) It seems especially important to do so given that the behaviour has become worse over time.

But yes, it's not cheap.

[nebo113]

Another perhaps not useful thing:  Canines want to please us but may have had such mixed signals in the past that they don't know how.  Regardless, I won't judge.  It sucks.

[nebo113]

I need advice on one of those underground electric fences for canines.  My canine needs more running room than my fenced in side yard so I have been talking with a friend about extending the fence.  He suggested the underground electric type, because it would be relatively inexpensive and because the ground is quite rocky and some of the original fence posts required a jack hammer to get the holes dug.

I have heard that the major drawback is if the dog gets so excited and wound up (which mine does) that it will simply blast through the electric jolt and then can't return.

Any suggestions, experiences, recommendations would be most appreciated.

[archaeo42]

I need advice on one of those underground electric fences for canines.  My canine needs more running room than my fenced in side yard so I have been talking with a friend about extending the fence.  He suggested the underground electric type, because it would be relatively inexpensive and because the ground is quite rocky and some of the original fence posts required a jack hammer to get the holes dug.

I have heard that the major drawback is if the dog gets so excited and wound up (which mine does) that it will simply blast through the electric jolt and then can't return.

Any suggestions, experiences, recommendations would be most appreciated.

When we bought our house the previous owner had had an electric fence installed. We opted not to use it and instead spent the money on fencing in the yard. Not only could the dog potentially run out, but it also means things can get (e.g. skunks and other wildlife) in more easily. Before we fenced the yard our dog was skunked twice. Since the fence was installed, no skunkings.

There's also the issue of people not knowing there's an electric fence and feeling threatened etc if the dog comes out and barks at them.

Finally, my in-laws had one that was battery powered from a transmitter and the dogs had special collars to beep/shock them depending on how close or how many times they got near the perimeter. The dogs figured out that if they sat close enough they could drain the battery on their collar without the beep/shock and then could go on their merry way to roaming the neighborhood and nearby farm fields.

So for me, a physical fence is always more preferable.

[clean]

Long ago I learned that "Foolproof systems fail to take account for the ingenuity of fools".  It looks like this is evidence that "Dogproof systems fail to take into account the ingenuity of dogs!"

[bibliothecula]

Thank you, all, for your input. My friend acknowledges that the biting is a problem, but she insists that she'll keep working with him and that he'll get better. She's pretty much in denial about what might happen if he got away from her and bit a student, or if he bit her badly enough to cause her to need stitches in her hands. She says she keeps him on a leash when she's teaching at home (music), so he can't get to students. I did suggest professional training or consultations when social distancing is over (or even with it, if she can find someone to meet with her and the dog). Now I guess I've said enough and voiced my concerns to her, and there's not much else I can do. But I'm still worried.

[apl68]

Baka-inu, the big, ugly, aggressive dog next door, seems to take it personally every time I try to do anything in my own yard.  As I was gathering gardenias this morning he was barking and snarling and carrying on as if he thought I was about to burglarize his family home. 

He's the alpha of three dogs.  When they play he sounds so rough I keep expecting to see the gnawed bones of the other two lying back there.