Can You Have a Rewarding Intellectual Life Outside Academe? CHE article

[mahagonny]

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

Oy. I think the point could be generalized to suggest there may be types of jobs out there that use many of the skills one expects to use in academia in some other context. I don't think the author was indeed suggesting that every unhappy PhD could, in fact, get a job as a dramaturgist.

Reeeeeeaaaally Marshy?  You think?

How utterly perceptive!

Gosh you are smart.

There are no problems in academe today that cannot be quickly solved by each of us individually. For example, by running from it as fast as possible and never looking back. Unless we're some sort of dumbass death-marcher, union antagonist, etc.

[polly_mer]

There are no problems in academe today that cannot be quickly solved by each of us individually.

Underprepared students who don't actually want to learn?

Underprepared students who do want to learn but are functioning at a third-grade level?

Deferred maintenance such that the classrooms are unsafe with no Internet access and completely inadequate climate control?

Lack of professors in fields where students dearly want to study, but few qualified professionals want to teach?

Prohibitive opportunity cost for people who would be better served taking one class at a time for a decade, but the structure is set up for full-time students living on campus for only 4 years?

Sure, some problems can be solved by individuals choosing to do something other than adjunct for peanuts.  Other problems will require concerted efforts that have nothing to do with adjuncts.

[spork]

I thought the article, given the headline, was about how people find intellectual satisfaction outside of work. I read the article, and discovered it's actually about the academic labor market.

My intellectual life isn't dependent on my job. I'd be reading the same books whether I was or wasn't a professor. My students don't provide me with intellectual stimulation 99.9% of the time. Nor do the vast majority of my coworkers.

[marshwiggle]

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

Oy. I think the point could be generalized to suggest there may be types of jobs out there that use many of the skills one expects to use in academia in some other context. I don't think the author was indeed suggesting that every unhappy PhD could, in fact, get a job as a dramaturgist.

Reeeeeeaaaally Marshy?  You think?

How utterly perceptive!

Gosh you are smart.

You're the one who seemed to think this article only referred to a very specific job. As I highlighted, your dismissal of the article was based on the rarity of that specific employment opportunity.

[mahagonny]

There are no problems in academe today that cannot be quickly solved by each of us individually.

Underprepared students who don't actually want to learn?

Underprepared students who do want to learn but are functioning at a third-grade level?

Deferred maintenance such that the classrooms are unsafe with no Internet access and completely inadequate climate control?

Lack of professors in fields where students dearly want to study, but few qualified professionals want to teach?

Prohibitive opportunity cost for people who would be better served taking one class at a time for a decade, but the structure is set up for full-time students living on campus for only 4 years?

Sure, some problems can be solved by individuals choosing to do something other than adjunct for peanuts.  Other problems will require concerted efforts that have nothing to do with adjuncts.

You left out one. Even if one runs away from academe as fast as possible, paying increased taxes to cover the underfunded pensions in the state university will not be optional.

[polly_mer]

There are no problems in academe today that cannot be quickly solved by each of us individually.

Underprepared students who don't actually want to learn?

Underprepared students who do want to learn but are functioning at a third-grade level?

Deferred maintenance such that the classrooms are unsafe with no Internet access and completely inadequate climate control?

Lack of professors in fields where students dearly want to study, but few qualified professionals want to teach?

Prohibitive opportunity cost for people who would be better served taking one class at a time for a decade, but the structure is set up for full-time students living on campus for only 4 years?

Sure, some problems can be solved by individuals choosing to do something other than adjunct for peanuts.  Other problems will require concerted efforts that have nothing to do with adjuncts.

You left out one. Even if one runs away from academe as fast as possible, paying increased taxes to cover the underfunded pensions in the state university will not be optional.

It's not just academic pensions that are going to fall onto all of us who pay taxes.

In case you missed it, the coal miners' union is petitioning Congress for more money for the pension fund as the only coal company that was still paying into the fund filed for bankruptcy.  That fund will run out of money before 2022.  In addition, the last-resort-at-the-federal-level Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is also underfunded and paid out more last year than it received.

However, one bright spot for many death-marching adjuncts is they make too little to pay many of the extra taxes.  The rest of us who make enough to pay extra taxes and know how to run basic financial scenarios will likely continue to move to places where the services rendered (infrastructure, schools, libraries) are a reasonable return on taxes paid.  Those of us who can read the papers and make solid inferences will continue to not take jobs where the deferred payment is obviously a promise that won't be kept (e.g., many of the people who would be teachers in K-12 districts that underpay today because of the promise of pensions and other benefits in retirement).

[ciao_yall]

I thought the article, given the headline, was about how people find intellectual satisfaction outside of work. I read the article, and discovered it's actually about the academic labor market.

My intellectual life isn't dependent on my job. I'd be reading the same books whether I was or wasn't a professor. My students don't provide me with intellectual stimulation 99.9% of the time. Nor do the vast majority of my coworkers.

For some reason I keep taking classes. When I was teaching business at a CC, which was not very intellectually stimulating, I did my EdD. Now that my EdD is finished I am working on a certificate in Spanish.

My colleagues at the CC are a zillion times smarter than anyone I worked with in corporate life. Strangely enough, I love doing all the stuff everyone else hates, like Faculty Senate and Curriculum Committee, just to grapple with wonky intellectual challenges.

[mahagonny]

There are no problems in academe today that cannot be quickly solved by each of us individually.

Underprepared students who don't actually want to learn?

Underprepared students who do want to learn but are functioning at a third-grade level?

Deferred maintenance such that the classrooms are unsafe with no Internet access and completely inadequate climate control?

Lack of professors in fields where students dearly want to study, but few qualified professionals want to teach?

Prohibitive opportunity cost for people who would be better served taking one class at a time for a decade, but the structure is set up for full-time students living on campus for only 4 years?

Sure, some problems can be solved by individuals choosing to do something other than adjunct for peanuts.  Other problems will require concerted efforts that have nothing to do with adjuncts.

You left out one. Even if one runs away from academe as fast as possible, paying increased taxes to cover the underfunded pensions in the state university will not be optional.

It's not just academic pensions that are going to fall onto all of us who pay taxes.

In case you missed it, the coal miners' union is petitioning Congress for more money for the pension fund as the only coal company that was still paying into the fund filed for bankruptcy.  That fund will run out of money before 2022.  In addition, the last-resort-at-the-federal-level Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is also underfunded and paid out more last year than it received.

However, one bright spot for many death-marching adjuncts is they make too little to pay many of the extra taxes.  The rest of us who make enough to pay extra taxes and know how to run basic financial scenarios will likely continue to move to places where the services rendered (infrastructure, schools, libraries) are a reasonable return on taxes paid.  Those of us who can read the papers and make solid inferences will continue to not take jobs where the deferred payment is obviously a promise that won't be kept (e.g., many of the people who would be teachers in K-12 districts that underpay today because of the promise of pensions and other benefits in retirement).

I guess you're not talking about me. I pay a lot of taxes. But I notice you're now extending your philosophy. Whereas previously you made a point of blaming adjuncts for accepting a bad deal, and praising the administrators who were able to have them do it, now you want to blame people for living in a part of the country where the government isn't giving them a square deal. Shouldn't you now be praising the government for finding suckers who live where they'll likely get screwed?

As I remember it a libertarian would be blaming the government more. You're not a libertarian. You just put on the libertarian hat when it's convenient.

[ciao_yall]

There are no problems in academe today that cannot be quickly solved by each of us individually.

Underprepared students who don't actually want to learn?

Underprepared students who do want to learn but are functioning at a third-grade level?

Deferred maintenance such that the classrooms are unsafe with no Internet access and completely inadequate climate control?

Lack of professors in fields where students dearly want to study, but few qualified professionals want to teach?

Prohibitive opportunity cost for people who would be better served taking one class at a time for a decade, but the structure is set up for full-time students living on campus for only 4 years?

Sure, some problems can be solved by individuals choosing to do something other than adjunct for peanuts.  Other problems will require concerted efforts that have nothing to do with adjuncts.

You left out one. Even if one runs away from academe as fast as possible, paying increased taxes to cover the underfunded pensions in the state university will not be optional.

It's not just academic pensions that are going to fall onto all of us who pay taxes.

In case you missed it, the coal miners' union is petitioning Congress for more money for the pension fund as the only coal company that was still paying into the fund filed for bankruptcy.  That fund will run out of money before 2022.  In addition, the last-resort-at-the-federal-level Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is also underfunded and paid out more last year than it received.

However, one bright spot for many death-marching adjuncts is they make too little to pay many of the extra taxes.  The rest of us who make enough to pay extra taxes and know how to run basic financial scenarios will likely continue to move to places where the services rendered (infrastructure, schools, libraries) are a reasonable return on taxes paid. Those of us who can read the papers and make solid inferences will continue to not take jobs where the deferred payment is obviously a promise that won't be kept (e.g., many of the people who would be teachers in K-12 districts that underpay today because of the promise of pensions and other benefits in retirement).

Well, that is a practical solution. /eyeroll

Economists continue to observe that people flat out do not move to places with better economic opportunity. They wait and hope for things to change. They don't like to abandon assets such as a home, or friends and community. Moving is expensive and risky, as is investing in education to learn a new skill which may or may not pay off.

[Wahoo Redux]

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

Oy. I think the point could be generalized to suggest there may be types of jobs out there that use many of the skills one expects to use in academia in some other context. I don't think the author was indeed suggesting that every unhappy PhD could, in fact, get a job as a dramaturgist.

Reeeeeeaaaally Marshy?  You think?

How utterly perceptive!

Gosh you are smart.

You're the one who seemed to think this article only referred to a very specific job. As I highlighted, your dismissal of the article was based on the rarity of that specific employment opportunity.

Oh Marshy...

[mamselle]

Hey, no need for snark.

For myself: I think I do live a rewarding life with strong intellectual components; my relationship with established academia is strong in some ways, less defined in others, and I might wish things were different in some aspects of it, but I'm satisfied with the work I'm able to do and grateful for the opportunities I get to share it: regular presentations, travel to visit the materials I need to work from, opportunities to teach from time to time.

My "other day jobs," including private music instruction, historic tour guiding, freelance editing, and working as a part-time EA for an interfaith non-profit focused on work that is itself partially academic (editing their journal) and partially the usual EA stuff (expense reports, organizational work, etc.).

Most or all of those tasks also both exercise my capacity for scholastic-based thinking, and require me to stay on top of ongoing trends and ideas in my study areas; it could be so much worse.

I'd enjoy having someone/being in a more structured situation that cared enough to pressure me to get more things published, and who offered the facilities to make that easier, but I don't have to deal with some of the other anxieties and issues that go along with those structures.

So (not having read the article) I can generally answer the thread topic/question in the affirmative, at least.

M.

[polly_mer]

Shouldn't you now be praising the government for finding suckers who live where they'll likely get screwed?

As I remember it a libertarian would be blaming the government more. You're not a libertarian. You just put on the libertarian hat when it's convenient.

Again, assigning a view to me is not the same as me having that view.

People who believe the government when the government promises things it can't do and the evidence is so overwhelming that the government can't keep the promise means people are failing at critical thinking.  The pensions for state unions have been so underfunded for so long in some places, which has regularly made the national news as well as the local news, that anyone claiming now that they didn't know pretty much means they didn't want to know or at least they didn't want to believe all the evidence.  It's the same argument as the death-marching adjuncts who claim they couldn't possibly know and yet some of us were reading nearly monthly articles back in the early 90s along with novels and such that had tales of humanities PhDs driving cabs in NYC in the 1980s.

Ciao_yall's assertion that people don't move, but they wait for things to get better is another indication of a failure of critical thinking on individuals.  For example,  tt turns out that many of the people of modest means in Chicago are moving just across the border where taxes are cheaper and they can have a better house/neighborhood/school district.  They keep their close families and friends as well as their jobs.  They just lose the burden that is Illinois taxes. 

Another interesting example of people failing at critical thinking comes from the CUNY adjunct refusal FAQ:

What will I do if I don't teach my course(s)?

Anything: the sky is the limit. Wait tables, clean floors, edit, beg, teach high school–anything other than continuing to accept the wages we are being offered.

Reference: https://tbnt.ws.gc.cuny.edu/f-a-q/

This getting-by-for-today list has significant overlap with non-high-school graduates.  This is not a revolution indicating a huge mindset change so that highly educated people will go do something where they're valued and be open to that call begging them to come back with a huge raise and better working conditions.  This is wishful thinking along the lines of "I'll drink the poison and then you'll be sorry" for an uncaring system that barely even knew each individual existed.

When I say that college doesn't teach critical thinking, teachers accepting deferred payment while the state unions were clearly going under and the adjuncts death-marching for peanuts are two recurring examples of the kinds of situations that I mean: educated people had access to the qualitative and quantitative data for areas that matter greatly to their own lives and yet continued to choose poorly.

Some kids won't have a chance without good K-12 schools; our obligation is to provide good mandatory education or have the lottery for excellent education for as much as we can afford.  People who had all the education one could want and still make bad choices don't get a lot of sympathy where I live.  That's not the government's fault; that's the people who kept letting the government fail because they would rather not deal with the unpleasant and true trade-offs that must be made in resource allocations and ownership of one's own life (i.e., failure at critical thinking when it mattered, not just on demand in a classroom).

[marshwiggle]

People who believe the government when the government promises things it can't do and the evidence is so overwhelming that the government can't keep the promise means people are failing at critical thinking.  The pensions for state unions have been so underfunded for so long in some places, which has regularly made the national news as well as the local news, that anyone claiming now that they didn't know pretty much means they didn't want to know or at least they didn't want to believe all the evidence. 

I'd expand this. Can anyone name a single western country that isn't running a budget deficit, and hasn't been doing so for the past few decades? It's always easiest in a democracy for the party in power, of whatever political stripe, to promise money to voters in order to get elected. And that money is going to come from their grandchildren. (Parties of the right offer it by lowering taxes below what is needed to fund government programs; parties of the left offer it by expanding programs beyond the revenue they take in.) The system is not sustainable, and there isn't a secret pot of gold somewhere that they just need to dip into to make everything unicorns and rainbows.

[ciao_yall]

Ciao_yall's assertion that people don't move, but they wait for things to get better is another indication of a failure of critical thinking on individuals.  For example,  tt turns out that many of the people of modest means in Chicago are moving just across the border where taxes are cheaper and they can have a better house/neighborhood/school district.  They keep their close families and friends as well as their jobs.  They just lose the burden that is Illinois taxes. 

My point exactly. They didn't move. They kept their families, friends and jobs. Not the same as leaving your West Virginia coal mining town for the tech industry.

[Hibush]

When I say that college doesn't teach critical thinking, teachers accepting deferred payment while the state unions were clearly going under and the adjuncts death-marching for peanuts are two recurring examples of the kinds of situations that I mean: educated people had access to the qualitative and quantitative data for areas that matter greatly to their own lives and yet continued to choose poorly.

This behavior may seem less of a conundrum if we changed the title of the thread to "can you have a rewarding intellectual identity outside academia?"  Identity is what keeps those not-likely-to-mine-again "coal miners" in West Virginia against every signal the economy can send their way. Attributing the stubbornness to stupidity is inaccurate, and will lead to bad policy choices by those who would like to improve the situation.