Accommodated students abusing their status

[marshwiggle]

I wouldn't say that people who don't know the material really can cram their way to short-term exam success.  If so, the exams are not very well designed. 

I agree with this. When I used to give exams, I made them open book. People still failed. Why? As I say, "you can't learn the course in 2 hours." People who have not been keeping up all term don't have a hope if they start a couple of days before the final, unless the test is pretty trivial. In my open book tests, the people who had been keeping up rarely if ever needed to open a book, but the unprepared had no idea where to look.

[fishbrains]

Yeah, people here seem to be overly focused on students missing classes and not turning things in at the deadline for the rest of the class, and those seem like red herrings to me.  I wonder if people here are treating those things as some kind of proxy for "showing respect."  At the end of the day, the student is responsible for knowing the material of the class, and attending and turning things in at certain points are just supposed to support that larger aim, not be sources of absolute good in themselves.

Yes. I think that the OP's primary confusion is with the adminicritters she is dealing with, and I would suggest that the OP send the head an email stating: "My understanding from our meeting on xx/xx/xxxx is that I am to provide only the accommodations stated in the students' accommodations letters, assign zeros for unsubmitted work, and follow the attendance policy outlined in my syllabus (attached). If I have misinterpreted any directions, please reply to this email, so I can continue to document my experiences with these students in case of a grade appeal or other actions the students might take." Or something like that (my version seems a little more threatening than I would like). 

The students are being a-holes, but the adminicritters' responses to them are probably where the alarm bells are going off for the OP. The OP should address them clearly in writing. Otherwise, she may be getting set up for the fall when the students file formal complaints.

When people ask me what I've found surprising about teaching, I generally respond with how much time I seem to spend covering my butt against every little stupid thing that might happen. When I review syllabi (sometimes part of my assigned duties), a significant percentage of our policies and procedures are clearly written to protect ourselves against sociopathic behaviors. 

[Caracal]

When people ask me what I've found surprising about teaching, I generally respond with how much time I seem to spend covering my butt against every little stupid thing that might happen. When I review syllabi (sometimes part of my assigned duties), a significant percentage of our policies and procedures are clearly written to protect ourselves against sociopathic behaviors.

I think that's true of most fields, right? Having set language in your syllabus you can refer to when someone starts doing something ridiculous is helpful because then you don't have to worry about it most of the time. If you combine that with reasonable course policies, you can spend most of your time being a helpful, reasonable person. Most students will follow your lead on that and then you only have to bring out your robot rules are the rules persona for the actual nutbars.

[hamburger]

Although I cannot post details of those accommodation letters, they do mention that such students could submit assignments late upon discussion with the professor. Only one of them discussed with me once about handing in one specific assignment late. I allowed the student to submit late to the secretary but that student didn't. They have been skipping classes and not submitting any assignments for a month without asking for any special arrangement with me. So, it is their fault. Yet, they complained that I don't accommodate them! Department head mentioned that perhaps after the students caused a scene in the class, they feel "uncomfortable" to go to the class to see me and as a result, they cannot submit their assignments! The head asked me to think of a solution. The syllabus that somebody wrote states that to pass the course, students have to submit all assignments along with satisfaction of other conditions. The entire class knows the answers already. Allowing late submission means breaking academic integrity.

Now there is a new accommodated student. He got a letter to allow him to submit assignments late. He got such letter in the middle of the semester. He asked me to allow him to submit all the previous assignments he missed. I asked his counselor if this is acceptable. No reply from her.

[downer]

Accommodations are not retroactive. There is no obligation to accommodate students for work due before they got their accommodations approved.

[hamburger]

Accommodations are not retroactive. There is no obligation to accommodate students for work due before they got their accommodations approved.

I think so too. That student keeps asking me and I just told him that I am waiting for somebody to reply for the next step. If I just say no, there is a chance that he will also complain and I will again waste hours with administrators.

[downer]

Accommodations are not retroactive. There is no obligation to accommodate students for work due before they got their accommodations approved.

I think so too. That student keeps asking me and I just told him that I am waiting for somebody to reply for the next step. If I just say no, there is a chance that he will also complain and I will again waste hours with administrators.

You have to make a choice. Either you are staying at this place of work, in which case dealing with this crap is your job. Or else you get a job elsewhere, in which case you can basically ignore these administrators while you are still at the current place -- just tell them that you are not available to meet.

[Hegemony]

You are certainly working according to the letter of the law.  I see that accommodations don't come into force until the letter is produced.  But do you imagine that the condition didn't actually exist until that point?  For a student with extreme anxiety, for instance, do you imagine that the anxiety only started when the letter was produced?  You are certainly behaving exactly as if these conditions for which they have accommodations (and you acknowledge that you don't have the details of these conditions) are made up, and the whole thing is a scam on the part of the students.  I submit that you are a) not in a position to be able to determine that b) legally obliged to abide by the accommodations no matter what your personal feelings.  But you seem determined to use every strategy to fail the students anyway.  Why not just let them have the accommodations, even the ones that are not "technically" required, such as turning in assignments late from earlier in the term?  Frankly, it looks to me as if you have an attitude of contempt toward these students, and you are denying them these things out of spite, rather than out of good educational practice.

In addition, surely your course is rigorous enough that they will not pass without having genuinely learned the material?  Surely the course is not weighted so greatly toward mere box-ticking (as in: they've turned their assignments in at the right date, and the quality of those assignments matters less) so that you are assessing students merely on jumping through the hoops you've established, rather than whether they've learned the material?

You don't seem to be addressing the wider issues in this thread, and it does leave me wondering whether the pushback of the students might not be well founded.

[Caracal]

Sorry double post

[Caracal]

Although I cannot post details of those accommodation letters, they do mention that such students could submit assignments late upon discussion with the professor. Only one of them discussed with me once about handing in one specific assignment late. I allowed the student to submit late to the secretary but that student didn't. They have been skipping classes and not submitting any assignments for a month without asking for any special arrangement with me. So, it is their fault. Yet, they complained that I don't accommodate them! Department head mentioned that perhaps after the students caused a scene in the class, they feel "uncomfortable" to go to the class to see me and as a result, they cannot submit their assignments! The head asked me to think of a solution. The syllabus that somebody wrote states that to pass the course, students have to submit all assignments along with satisfaction of other conditions. The entire class knows the answers already. Allowing late submission means breaking academic integrity.

Now there is a new accommodated student. He got a letter to allow him to submit assignments late. He got such letter in the middle of the semester. He asked me to allow him to submit all the previous assignments he missed. I asked his counselor if this is acceptable. No reply from her.

I really am curious what happened with this "scene" in class. But never mind. This isn't my field, but I assume if students really want to copy the answers  from each other they could do that and turn the thing in on time? I know that they know what the correct answer is for sure, now, but these problems probably aren't that hard in the first place. Usually the point of work like that is to just keep students on task. If people really want to cheat, they can probably get away with it. If they don't know how to do the work, then they will bomb the exam.

[hamburger]

A parent will come to school to talk with administrator about me!

I heard that it is not uncommon for parents to call in to complain even this is a CC, not a high school nor an  elementary school. I have a colleague getting a letter from a parent saying that he is the vice-president of ABC company and wanted to see him about the poor performance of his son. There were also parents who complained to the school saying that they were professionals and asked why their son failed a test. Isn't it obvious that if a student does not have the talent nor study hard, failure is normal? Students and parents blame poor performance on professors. Some of them think that by paying to study, they are entitled to good scores. Is this common also in universities?

[Aster]

It is very common at most SLAC's.

There is even a little jingle for it.

"Pay Your Fee's and Get Your B's."

[Caracal]

It is very common at most SLAC's.

There is even a little jingle for it.

"Pay Your Fee's and Get Your B's."

We were told in a presentation on FERPA by a registrar at a SLAC that she gets calls all the time from parents wanting to talk to professors or know more about grades. We were told clearly that we should never talk to parents and that we should route them to her. At a well run institution, faculty should have nothing to do with parents. I have never been contacted by a parent or family member, and I've probably taught over 1000 students at this point.

[hamburger]

It is very common at most SLAC's.

There is even a little jingle for it.

"Pay Your Fee's and Get Your B's."

So what do the professors at those SLAC do? Just play along and give easy marks to avoid wasting time to deal with complaints? At my current place, they always talk about Academic Integrity and requirements to pass a course. However, I found that in practice, they often bend the rules. It is difficult to function as a real professor.

[mahagonny]

Some time ago I was one of the people involved in decisions that affected admissions. The assistant dean had some lists ready for me when I arrived to meet the applicants. Then he added, grimly, 'Oh, this person here: he is the provost's son.'

We were told in a presentation on FERPA by a registrar at a SLAC that she gets calls all the time from parents wanting to talk to professors or know more about grades. We were told clearly that we should never talk to parents and that we should route them to her. At a well run institution, faculty should have nothing to do with parents. I have never been contacted by a parent or family member, and I've probably taught over 1000 students at this point.

My phone number was given to an unhappy parent of a student who didn't get in. Or maybe it was that I was asked to call her. But I did speak to her on the phone, and it wasn't my idea. And promised to fix everything so the young genius could be admitted. The dean said 'well, Mahagonny, you just never make any trouble do you?'
Except I may have forgotten to actually do the paperwork.

More recently, an administrator called me about a student complaint about a grade over the summer. The grade was 'C.' He said 'there's no reason for you to contact me unless you want to change the grade.' I didn't. No one wants a 'C' on their transcript. I'd like to see a little effort now and then. Is that reasonable? Apparently not.

So what do the professors at those SLAC do? Just play along and give easy marks to avoid wasting time to deal with complaints? At my current place, they always talk about Academic Integrity and requirements to pass a course. However, I found that in practice, they often bend the rules. It is difficult to function as a real professor.

.

It makes sense. Bending the rules just to avoid work and confrontation could mean the rules get talked about even more, in order to keep up the appearance that they matter. Or some people are talking about them, like, pleading to get some reinforcement for them.