Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[FishProf]

I just looked and could find NOTHING in my accreditation agency about required Peer-to-peer interactions in Online classes (or any other, for that matter).

[arcturus]

I just looked and could find NOTHING in my accreditation agency about required Peer-to-peer interactions in Online classes (or any other, for that matter).

Interesting! When I was designing my online course, I was informed that peer-to-peer interactions were critical to distinguish an accredited online course and a correspondence course (the latter of which is not eligible for federal financial aid). They also said that peer-to-peer was helpful for building student community and other pedagogical reasons, most of which I viewed as admin-speak with the expected null content. Nonetheless, I dutifully require my non-science gen ed students to post weekly discussions in my large enrollment 100-level science course. I have managed to find good discussion topics that tie our class material to their daily lives/potential career paths, but it is not something I would have included in the course design by choice.

[mamselle]

I recall from the old forum that this was an issue in Accounting courses; Octoprof in particular was pointing out that there were many correspondence courses that would not qualify for financial aid on these grounds.

I wonder if it could vary by region; i.e., different regional accreditation boards pay/paid attention to it in different ways?

M.

[dismalist]

I was informed that peer-to-peer interactions were critical to distinguish an accredited online course and a correspondence course (the latter of which is not eligible for federal financial aid).

Any argument that justifies and helps preserve the cartel is welcome -- to the cartel members.

[arcturus]

I was informed that peer-to-peer interactions were critical to distinguish an accredited online course and a correspondence course (the latter of which is not eligible for federal financial aid).

Any argument that justifies and helps preserve the cartel is welcome -- to the cartel members.

On the other hand, this was one of my arguments to the dean that an online class required *more* resources than a similar in person class. For example, I can do think-pair-share with 200 in person students by letting them talk with each other for a few minutes while I check in with a handful of groups in real time and then have a class-wide discussion. Total time, perhaps 10 minutes. A similar exercise done with an online class requires me to read (and grade...since online students will not do anything unless points are associated with the activity...) 200 responses, which takes much more than 10 minutes!

I designed my course pre-COVID, so it is possible that the requirements have been relaxed substantially following the mass online migration in Spring 2020.

[mamselle]

This may not work for other reasons, but for the think-pair-share component, if you had a capable TA (conjectural, I realize) who knew how to set up breakout rooms in advance (also conjectural) and assign them so they could put, if not 2, then maybe 4 students in each breakout room, that might be do-able. 

They could report back by the chat, within a few moments, the TA could survey the chat notes and bump up the good ones to you for positive reinforcement, and then you could be on your way.

In a perfect Zoom-world, of course--maybe....

M.

[arcturus]

Yes, the breakout rooms can mimic some aspects of an in person class. However, my online class is asynchronous, so no zooming...

[mamselle]

Ah, got it.

Oh, well...

;--}

M.

[kiana]

I think there's definitely some variability amongst accreditors.

We were told that we needed to demonstrate regular, substantive interaction, but although we were strongly encouraged to include peer-to-peer it was not required.

That's a damn good thing because I was not looking forward to trying to cajole remedial algebra students into posting and responding on discussion boards.

[mamselle]

Oh, dear.

Yes, things like "the existential value of using the letter n, m, and x over the use of a, b, and c in equation examples is highly overrated" might be a bit beyond them...

M. 

[Caracal]

I think there's definitely some variability amongst accreditors.

We were told that we needed to demonstrate regular, substantive interaction, but although we were strongly encouraged to include peer-to-peer it was not required.

That's a damn good thing because I was not looking forward to trying to cajole remedial algebra students into posting and responding on discussion boards.

That makes sense. The correspondence course thing is weird and outdated and should be retired as a comparison, but the idea is that it was a format that had content delivery by an instructor and evaluation of student work, but not regular interaction. I suppose you could have had students mailing off reflection posts every week and the instructor mailing back comments, but that would have been logistically difficult, time consuming and inefficient.

It makes sense to say that an online class can't just be recorded lectures students watch, readings they are assigned and then exams with the added benefit that you can email the professor.

[FishProf]

It makes sense to say that an online class can't just be recorded lectures students watch, readings they are assigned and then exams with the added benefit that you can email the professor.

Why does that make sense?  For some courses (the algebra example above), the benefit of peer-to-peer interaction isn't obvious.  It would be better (IMO) to not have the token interaction if it is only there to check an accreditation box.

One size fits all, usually doesn't.

[AvidReader]

Not despair, but funny enough to post:

Student submitted a short (1000 word) essay in single-spaced Arial. It has a separate works cited page containing one text (acceptable for this assignment) and a separate title page. So although the entirety of the essay is crammed onto 1.5 pages, the whole PDF is 4 pages. It feels so incongruous to see the four pages in a row.

AR.

[kiana]

It makes sense to say that an online class can't just be recorded lectures students watch, readings they are assigned and then exams with the added benefit that you can email the professor.

Why does that make sense?  For some courses (the algebra example above), the benefit of peer-to-peer interaction isn't obvious.  It would be better (IMO) to not have the token interaction if it is only there to check an accreditation box.

One size fits all, usually doesn't.

I think that there is middle ground to be had.

We don't really have peer-to-peer interaction in the algebra classes, but there is plenty of professor-to-student interaction (one of the reasons even the online algebra classes are small at our CC). Students turn in something that is handwritten for feedback at least twice a week and the professor reads/comments. That's still interaction and it's a long way from a correspondence course.

[lilyb]

We don't really have peer-to-peer interaction in the algebra classes, but there is plenty of professor-to-student interaction (one of the reasons even the online algebra classes are small at our CC).

Out of curiosity, what does your admin consider small? I have an online writing-intensive course with a 25 cap. It's killing me.