Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[Anon1787]

Stu earns the dubious distinction of getting only 5% correct on the multiple-choice section of an exam (cue blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a scantron).

And M-C answers that are more than one word are too hard.

[the_geneticist]

Stu earns the dubious distinction of getting only 5% correct on the multiple-choice section of an exam (cue blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a scantron).

And M-C answers that are more than one word are too hard.

Dang, that's even worse than random guessing.  You sure they didn't accidentally put the wrong version on their scantron?

[marshwiggle]

Stu earns the dubious distinction of getting only 5% correct on the multiple-choice section of an exam (cue blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a scantron).

And M-C answers that are more than one word are too hard.

Dang, that's even worse than random guessing.  You sure they didn't accidentally put the wrong version on their scantron?

Even that should still be about like random answers. Doing statistically worse than random requires skills.

[Anon1787]

Stu earns the dubious distinction of getting only 5% correct on the multiple-choice section of an exam (cue blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a scantron).

And M-C answers that are more than one word are too hard.

Dang, that's even worse than random guessing.  You sure they didn't accidentally put the wrong version on their scantron?

Nope. Stu also neglected to answer one of the essay questions (which was on the study guide almost verbatim). And to recall my previous post, Stu took at least 45 minutes to turn in their exam (not sure if Stu was embarrassed to turn it in sooner or worked all that time).

[bopper]

Students finish exams WAY faster online compared to in person.  Does the exam not feel as "real" if it's online?  Does bubbling in answers on paper really slow them down that much?  Is offering an "open note" exam making students feel like they don't need to prepare?
I feel like there is a fundable study to get at these questions, but it's outside my area of expertise.

Maybe it is that in class they can compare themselves to everyone else...if everyone else is taking the full hour and they don't feel confident they would probably stay the full hour.

[the_geneticist]

Students finish exams WAY faster online compared to in person.  Does the exam not feel as "real" if it's online?  Does bubbling in answers on paper really slow them down that much?  Is offering an "open note" exam making students feel like they don't need to prepare?
I feel like there is a fundable study to get at these questions, but it's outside my area of expertise.

Maybe it is that in class they can compare themselves to everyone else...if everyone else is taking the full hour and they don't feel confident they would probably stay the full hour.

Ugh.  Maybe that's why they all finished Midterm 1 in about 20 minutes in person.  The first student just blasted through the exam and they knew they could take a bit of a break before the start of the lab activity.  I should have told the TAs that no one leaves the room, even if they finish early.  Learning to sit quietly and wait is a skill.

[dismalist]

...no one leaves the room, even if they finish early.  Learning to sit quietly and wait is a skill.

Best to be careful. This could lead to a charge of false imprisonment.

[Biologist_]

Stu earns the dubious distinction of getting only 5% correct on the multiple-choice section of an exam (cue blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a scantron)...

Dang, that's even worse than random guessing.  You sure they didn't accidentally put the wrong version on their scantron?

Even that should still be about like random answers. Doing statistically worse than random requires skills.

Not the way I set up my exams. I try to make almost all of the answer choices different between versions. That way, if someone cheats from the wrong version, it's blatantly obvious. But I don't label the versions, so I fill in the version numbers myself after they turn them in.

[Anon1787]

Stu earns the dubious distinction of getting only 5% correct on the multiple-choice section of an exam (cue blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a scantron)...

Dang, that's even worse than random guessing.  You sure they didn't accidentally put the wrong version on their scantron?

Even that should still be about like random answers. Doing statistically worse than random requires skills.

Not the way I set up my exams. I try to make almost all of the answer choices different between versions. That way, if someone cheats from the wrong version, it's blatantly obvious. But I don't label the versions, so I fill in the version numbers myself after they turn them in.

That's interesting. I may try a variation on that.

[lightning]

In January, the department chair begged me to take a 100-level service class, at the last minute (this is one of the disadvantages of teaching in a unit that does not rely on an adjunct pool). I agreed to do it as long as I was never asked to do it again. It was for a section that was added at the last minute. This second section was created to accommodate over-enrollment from the first section, and additional anticipated demand during the first week of class.

My dropout rate is very high. It's actually embarrassingly high. Out of curiosity, I checked up on the academic records of the students who dropped. I was shocked to find out that, of the students who dropped, most of them had standardized test scores that were way below the threshold for minimum admissions standards. I'm not exactly sure what is going on here & how they even got into the university (they are not athletes, BTW), but it was a "Bang Your Head on Your Desk" moment. I think that a lot of the students in this class were dumped in there by advisors who knew that many of the students were a lost cause.

[marshwiggle]

In January, the department chair begged me to take a 100-level service class, at the last minute (this is one of the disadvantages of teaching in a unit that does not rely on an adjunct pool). I agreed to do it as long as I was never asked to do it again. It was for a section that was added at the last minute. This second section was created to accommodate over-enrollment from the first section, and additional anticipated demand during the first week of class.

My dropout rate is very high. It's actually embarrassingly high. Out of curiosity, I checked up on the academic records of the students who dropped. I was shocked to find out that, of the students who dropped, most of them had standardized test scores that were way below the threshold for minimum admissions standards. I'm not exactly sure what is going on here & how they even got into the university (they are not athletes, BTW), but it was a "Bang Your Head on Your Desk" moment. I think that a lot of the students in this class were dumped in there by advisors who knew that many of the students were a lost cause.

For the most part, why most students fail is a very-poorly kept secret, but it doesn't fit the political narrative that "anyone can be anything they want, and all they need is a little help".

[mythbuster]

The term used at our Uni for those kinds of admits is backfilling. They admit with the standards, see how they do in terms of yield and then backfill with transfers and other people who would not make the cut until we reach our enrollment goal! That way the enrollment services people always make their targets for an annual bonus. GRRR.

[marshwiggle]

The term used at our Uni for those kinds of admits is backfilling. They admit with the standards, see how they do in terms of yield and then backfill with transfers and other people who would not make the cut until we reach our enrollment goal! That way the enrollment services people always make their targets for an annual bonus. GRRR.

Many years ago, our department did an analysis of 10 years worth of data and found that of students coming in with less than a 70% average, not a single one had made it to 2nd year. NOT. A SINGLE. ONE. It was still a battle to get admissions to accept that.

[lightning]

The term used at our Uni for those kinds of admits is backfilling. They admit with the standards, see how they do in terms of yield and then backfill with transfers and other people who would not make the cut until we reach our enrollment goal! That way the enrollment services people always make their targets for an annual bonus. GRRR.

Many years ago, our department did an analysis of 10 years worth of data and found that of students coming in with less than a 70% average, not a single one had made it to 2nd year. NOT. A SINGLE. ONE. It was still a battle to get admissions to accept that.

The term used at our Uni for those kinds of admits is backfilling. They admit with the standards, see how they do in terms of yield and then backfill with transfers and other people who would not make the cut until we reach our enrollment goal! That way the enrollment services people always make their targets for an annual bonus. GRRR.

For me, this has been a sobering reality check. The university proudly advertises the standardized test scores required to get into the university, but in reality, they do not enforce it, and they more-or-less admit anyone with a heartbeat. I thought I was no longer naive, but for some things, I still am. I suppose since I mainly deal with juniors and up within my degree program, the backfill admits rarely get to me.

[apl68]

I think Alma Mater may have been starting to stoop to backfilling shortly before my mother retired.  She recalls at least one grossly, hopelessly underqualified student that she believed it was unethical for the school to have admitted.  I hope this was and has been a rare exception there.  Judging from some things I've seen here, it looks like backfilling is getting to be pretty common in some places that never had much of a reputation for selectivity to start with.  Admitting students who pretty clearly have no chance of making it just so you can take their (usually borrowed) money is just appalling.  It's taking money under false pretenses.