Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[AmLitHist]

Admitting students who pretty clearly have no chance of making it just so you can take their (usually borrowed) money is just appalling.  It's taking money under false pretenses.

Welcome to the world of open-enrollment CC's, like mine. (The only real control we have over this is in some grant-funded programs, but those of us in the gen ed classes they'll need to pass in order to get into those programs deal with tons of "no chance in the world" students as 50% or more of our enrollments. Of course, we then get ripped by Admin for our abysmal pass rates.  Sigh.)

[reverist]

I caught a student plagiarizing a discussion via paraphrase tool. I knew it looked weird, read like it was written by a robot who didn't understand the prompt, and happened to see the Wikipedia on the broader topic and realized a few sentences in what had happened.

My question is this: what do you all do when you see that it is so paraphrased (or looks suspiciously like it is), but you can't seem to find the original source? All I feel like I can do if I can't locate it is dock them for readability/coherence and move on.

[reverist]

sorry double post, don't know how to delete.

[the_geneticist]

The term used at our Uni for those kinds of admits is backfilling. They admit with the standards, see how they do in terms of yield and then backfill with transfers and other people who would not make the cut until we reach our enrollment goal! That way the enrollment services people always make their targets for an annual bonus. GRRR.

My previous job was at a tiny SLAC.  They claimed to have rigorous standards, but in reality would admit anyone willing to pay the stupidly high tuition.  The also got rid of the math requirements by "coincidence" the same year they announced the start of a football program.
Lots of "backfilling" to get the numbers up there too. 
The admin was always grumbling at the faculty due to the huge drop in students from year 1 to year 2.  "where are they going? why are the leaving? what are YOU doing wrong?".  Doubly true for BIPOC students & first-to-college.

Hmm, let's see. 
Intro class sizes MUCH larger than the promised low student to faculty ratios? check
Really high tuition & cost of living? got it
Intro classes are just straight lecture? check
Students placed in classes they have no hope of passing? got it

Add in a big dash of small town racism and it's no wonder students just felt overwhelmed, unsupported, and didn't want to stay.

[the_geneticist]

I caught a student plagiarizing a discussion via paraphrase tool. I knew it looked weird, read like it was written by a robot who didn't understand the prompt, and happened to see the Wikipedia on the broader topic and realized a few sentences in what had happened.

My question is this: what do you all do when you see that it is so paraphrased (or looks suspiciously like it is), but you can't seem to find the original source? All I feel like I can do if I can't locate it is dock them for readability/coherence and move on.

Report them.  And give them a low grade for not addressing the prompt.  The conduct folks will decide if it's worth chasing down the original source.

[apl68]

Admitting students who pretty clearly have no chance of making it just so you can take their (usually borrowed) money is just appalling.  It's taking money under false pretenses.

Welcome to the world of open-enrollment CC's, like mine. (The only real control we have over this is in some grant-funded programs, but those of us in the gen ed classes they'll need to pass in order to get into those programs deal with tons of "no chance in the world" students as 50% or more of our enrollments. Of course, we then get ripped by Admin for our abysmal pass rates.  Sigh.)

Come on, Administration!  You can't have BOTH wide-open admissions standards, AND good pass and retention rates.  It's like wanting a construction project to be fast, cheap, AND high-quality.

[downer]

I caught a student plagiarizing a discussion via paraphrase tool. I knew it looked weird, read like it was written by a robot who didn't understand the prompt, and happened to see the Wikipedia on the broader topic and realized a few sentences in what had happened.

My question is this: what do you all do when you see that it is so paraphrased (or looks suspiciously like it is), but you can't seem to find the original source? All I feel like I can do if I can't locate it is dock them for readability/coherence and move on.

I get this increasingly often. I don't normally report students, although I did in the spring for a particularly spectacular case. One thing about the paraphrasing tool is that you don't necessarily notice at first, and it is only after the student slips up that you notice. Then you go back to previous work by the student and you realize that they also used a paraphrasing too. I found a student near the end of the semester who had done that. So I reported them. But it didn't make a difference. I was not able to arrange an execution. I just failed them for the course.

For most cases I say "this looks like you used a plagiarism tool" and give the student a zero for the assignment. If they want to appeal to someone, bring it on. Generally they don't. Actually, they never appeal. Sometimes they moan but don't do anything.

[Larimar]

I caught a student plagiarizing a discussion via paraphrase tool. I knew it looked weird, read like it was written by a robot who didn't understand the prompt, and happened to see the Wikipedia on the broader topic and realized a few sentences in what had happened.

My question is this: what do you all do when you see that it is so paraphrased (or looks suspiciously like it is), but you can't seem to find the original source? All I feel like I can do if I can't locate it is dock them for readability/coherence and move on.

I get this increasingly often. I don't normally report students, although I did in the spring for a particularly spectacular case. One thing about the paraphrasing tool is that you don't necessarily notice at first, and it is only after the student slips up that you notice. Then you go back to previous work by the student and you realize that they also used a paraphrasing too. I found a student near the end of the semester who had done that. So I reported them. But it didn't make a difference. I was not able to arrange an execution. I just failed them for the course.

For most cases I say "this looks like you used a plagiarism tool" and give the student a zero for the assignment. If they want to appeal to someone, bring it on. Generally they don't. Actually, they never appeal. Sometimes they moan but don't do anything.

First year comp instructor and adjunct at a CC here. I don't dare fail a student if I just think they plagiarized. I've seen enough tiger moms, and a belligerent student or two, who likely would have come after me and gotten me fired if I didn't have proof. My department also wants there to be proof to cover the institution's collective legal posteriors.

If I'm suspicious about a student's work, I keep looking until I find where they plagiarized from. Usually it doesn't take long. More often than not it'll be a cut and paste job from a known plagiarism site or some other web site. I admit that I am not the most tech-savvy of people. If the student has covered their tracks enough that I can't find where they're plagiarizing from, and the paper is in as much of a state of gobbledegook as the example given upthread, then I would fail them for that. The previous, already graded work I would just let go. Changing already established grades is problematic, and if the student is that dependent on cheating, they will likely keep doing it until they're caught. I would give that student's work extra scrutiny from then on!


Larimar

[ciao_yall]

I caught a student plagiarizing a discussion via paraphrase tool. I knew it looked weird, read like it was written by a robot who didn't understand the prompt, and happened to see the Wikipedia on the broader topic and realized a few sentences in what had happened.

My question is this: what do you all do when you see that it is so paraphrased (or looks suspiciously like it is), but you can't seem to find the original source? All I feel like I can do if I can't locate it is dock them for readability/coherence and move on.

I get this increasingly often. I don't normally report students, although I did in the spring for a particularly spectacular case. One thing about the paraphrasing tool is that you don't necessarily notice at first, and it is only after the student slips up that you notice. Then you go back to previous work by the student and you realize that they also used a paraphrasing too. I found a student near the end of the semester who had done that. So I reported them. But it didn't make a difference. I was not able to arrange an execution. I just failed them for the course.

For most cases I say "this looks like you used a plagiarism tool" and give the student a zero for the assignment. If they want to appeal to someone, bring it on. Generally they don't. Actually, they never appeal. Sometimes they moan but don't do anything.

First year comp instructor and adjunct at a CC here. I don't dare fail a student if I just think they plagiarized. I've seen enough tiger moms, and a belligerent student or two, who likely would have come after me and gotten me fired if I didn't have proof. My department also wants there to be proof to cover the institution's collective legal posteriors.

If I'm suspicious about a student's work, I keep looking until I find where they plagiarized from. Usually it doesn't take long. More often than not it'll be a cut and paste job from a known plagiarism site or some other web site. I admit that I am not the most tech-savvy of people. If the student has covered their tracks enough that I can't find where they're plagiarizing from, and the paper is in as much of a state of gobbledegook as the example given upthread, then I would fail them for that. The previous, already graded work I would just let go. Changing already established grades is problematic, and if the student is that dependent on cheating, they will likely keep doing it until they're caught. I would give that student's work extra scrutiny from then on!


Larimar

Also at a CC. I never bothered to report students. If I could figure out they plagiarized, they got a zero. If they wrote gobbledygook that didn't really address the question, they got a zero. If they managed to slip one past me, well, they wouldn't get away with it forever and it wasn't worth my pain sorrow and aggravation.

One student found an article in French, Google-translated it and submitted it. How did I catch it? First, I knew the subject area (foreign exchange rates) and when I asked her about it, she couldn't answer. Second, I recognized the "French accent" in the word choices, and being a French speaker, was able to reverse-engineer the article and found the original.

[OneMoreYear]

Re: plagiarism. I'm required to document the plagiarism, determine the initial penalty, meet with the student, and submit forms to student conduct.  Students who disagree with the penalty I've assigned based on degree of problem/type of assignment/student level (which can range from a point deduction, a require to revise/resubmit, a 0 for the assignment, failure for the class) can appeal the decision to the student conduct office (no one has every done so). Students who are identified as repeat offenders by the student conduct office may have additional consequences above and beyond what I've assigned for my course (this is why they require us to file the report). 

(not specifically plagiarism related) As a grad student TA, I observed a student use a cheat sheet on an exam. The professor told me to ignore it and to grade the exam as if the student had not cheated. The student passed the class.  I learned many things not to do when I started teaching my own classes by TAing for that class. I think the professor may have been burnt out.

[Harlow2]

Our policy is similar to OneMoreYear's, and part of the goal is to determine whether a student has a pattern of plagiarizing. I teach grad students who are teachers and administrators and was disappointed to find that I have at least one case a year. Sometimes the student stops, but other times they plagiarize in their next classes.  One department I taught in at  another university had a reputation for ignoring cheating and plagiarizing in its doctoral program.

[dr_evil]

Admitting students who pretty clearly have no chance of making it just so you can take their (usually borrowed) money is just appalling.  It's taking money under false pretenses.

Welcome to the world of open-enrollment CC's, like mine. (The only real control we have over this is in some grant-funded programs, but those of us in the gen ed classes they'll need to pass in order to get into those programs deal with tons of "no chance in the world" students as 50% or more of our enrollments. Of course, we then get ripped by Admin for our abysmal pass rates.  Sigh.)

I feel that. We've had admin try to convince us to waive our pre-req from another department. The cynical side of me is that the other department doesn't want the poor pass rate and wants to send it to us.

The students I'm getting now are even worse than when I started here. I'm very discouraged.

[the_geneticist]

None of my print requests arrived on time.
Not one.
So, I spent my morning frantically printing & copying lab manual protocols, worksheets and rosters.

Good thing I was suspicious that they wouldn't be delivered as promised and arrived early. . . .

[mamselle]

I remember that run-around.

They want you to use the printing service. "It's cheaper. We get a better deal on paper, labor, etc., that way."

But when they don't deliver, it's the instructor's (or their EA's) labor, time, hidden paper stash, and good will fighting with the printer that get used up instead.

I have twice, in two different schools, had to print exams last-minute because of failures like these.

Such fun.

M. 

[the_geneticist]

I remember that run-around.

They want you to use the printing service. "It's cheaper. We get a better deal on paper, labor, etc., that way."

But when they don't deliver, it's the instructor's (or their EA's) labor, time, hidden paper stash, and good will fighting with the printer that get used up instead.

I have twice, in two different schools, had to print exams last-minute because of failures like these.

Such fun.

M.

I'm not convinced that it's any cheaper or convenient, especially given the hassle of needing more and more lead time to make sure jobs arrive on time.
I've also been told "the department copy machine will overheat if you print more than 100 pages". 
Nope. 
I can personally attest that it will handle that many no problems.