Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[little bongo]

That's truly annoying. I think it's I who should buy the first round; you've earned it.

[Biologist_]

A double post, about a week later.

It's not really despair, but I've discovered my students have an interesting sense of time.

I asked for a 5 minute recorded presentation, as we are having a virtual poster session. Presentation lengths submitted so far range from 3.5 minutes to 9.5 minutes. Perhaps the class average time will be 5 minutes?

If you want them to be 5 minutes next time, tell them that you will stop the video and assign a grade at the 5:00 mark.

[FishProf]

A double post, about a week later.

It's not really despair, but I've discovered my students have an interesting sense of time.

I asked for a 5 minute recorded presentation, as we are having a virtual poster session. Presentation lengths submitted so far range from 3.5 minutes to 9.5 minutes. Perhaps the class average time will be 5 minutes?

If you want them to be 5 minutes next time, tell them that you will stop the video and assign a grade at the 5:00 mark.

Right.  Tell them you grade the first five minutes.  They'll tighten up.

[OneMoreYear]

A double post, about a week later.

It's not really despair, but I've discovered my students have an interesting sense of time.

I asked for a 5 minute recorded presentation, as we are having a virtual poster session. Presentation lengths submitted so far range from 3.5 minutes to 9.5 minutes. Perhaps the class average time will be 5 minutes?

If you want them to be 5 minutes next time, tell them that you will stop the video and assign a grade at the 5:00 mark.

Right.  Tell them you grade the first five minutes.  They'll tighten up.

Yeah, I know. I said approximately 5 minutes and told them not to worry if it was between 4 and 6.  I've used these instructions before with good success , and had not experienced submissions way outside the range before (occasionally someone clocks in at 7 minutes). This class has been so anxious about "what exactly do you want Dr. OMY?!!!!" that I had not expected them to blow through the time requirements. But maybe it's the anxiety driving long presentations as they are trying to fit everything in. Eh, if we all survive the semester I'm counting it as a win this year. Everyone still enrolled is on track to pass.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Stu emailed me (for the first time) at 6pm today to let me know that stu hasn't done any of the work because stu is having financial issues. Now, I can sympathize/empathize with the situation, but we are at the END of week #2 of an online summer course that is only seven weeks long. I have to no show students and this person waited to the last damn minute.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Double post.

Only half of my online class took the first quiz, which is surprising. I posted numerous announcements, it's in the syllabus, yada, yada, yada. I haven't heard any complaints from anyone yet about me 'not telling them' they had a quiz.

[ergative]

Stu--you don't even know what your exam grade was, and already you want to formally contest it? Yes, it was pretty low--you figured that out from your course grade, which was lower than the stuff you'd already turned in. Good for you--I'm glad you can do math. But it's kind of a bad look to send an email saying, 'what was my grade i'm contesting it whatever it was I'm an A student how dare you.'

Also, I've heard from the school admin that you're doing the same thing in another course, for the same reason. Think, for a moment: Do you really think that my department and History are both pulling independent shenanigans with their grading processes? Have you considered the possibility that maybe you just didn't do so great on your exams this term?

[reverist]

Stu--you don't even know what your exam grade was, and already you want to formally contest it? Yes, it was pretty low--you figured that out from your course grade, which was lower than the stuff you'd already turned in. Good for you--I'm glad you can do math. But it's kind of a bad look to send an email saying, 'what was my grade i'm contesting it whatever it was I'm an A student how dare you.'

Also, I've heard from the school admin that you're doing the same thing in another course, for the same reason. Think, for a moment: Do you really think that my department and History are both pulling independent shenanigans with their grading processes? Have you considered the possibility that maybe you just didn't do so great on your exams this term?

Oh, not *independent* shenanigans, but conspiratorial ones! /sarc

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Stu--you don't even know what your exam grade was, and already you want to formally contest it? Yes, it was pretty low--you figured that out from your course grade, which was lower than the stuff you'd already turned in. Good for you--I'm glad you can do math. But it's kind of a bad look to send an email saying, 'what was my grade i'm contesting it whatever it was I'm an A student how dare you.'

Also, I've heard from the school admin that you're doing the same thing in another course, for the same reason. Think, for a moment: Do you really think that my department and History are both pulling independent shenanigans with their grading processes? Have you considered the possibility that maybe you just didn't do so great on your exams this term?

Wow...

[Langue_doc]

I once had a student yell at me because hu didn't get As. Helpful departmental assistant looked up Stu's grades in other courses. Lo and behold, they were mostly Cs and Ds. Stu then informed me that Chair had assured hu of a C in the course--this was before the midterm break. Stu dropped the course, much to everyone's relief.

[Parasaurolophus]

One article I assigned makes a passing reference to a Nirvana lyric. So, so many students are saying "Kurt Cobain argues" in their essays and then attributing a number of things to him, as if (1) it were an argument, and (2) he was an eminent academic.

[marshwiggle]

One article I assigned makes a passing reference to a Nirvana lyrics. So, so many students are saying "Kurt Cobain argues" in their essays and then attributing a number of things to him, as if (1) it were an argument, and (2) he was an eminent academic.

But if that was Kurt's "lived experience", isn't that as good as an academic argument based on evidence and logic?

[Caracal]

One article I assigned makes a passing reference to a Nirvana lyrics. So, so many students are saying "Kurt Cobain argues" in their essays and then attributing a number of things to him, as if (1) it were an argument, and (2) he was an eminent academic.

I mean you don't have to be an academic to make an argument. If they were talking about an interview Cobain did where he made some sort of claim or laid out an idea, that would be fine. I agree that song lyrics aren't usually arguments, but I wouldn't really object to the idea that a song can make an argument or suggest one or something along those lines.

This is a version of something students often stuggle with, which is understanding who is writing something and what the genre is. The version I often get is when students read an academic article about something in the past and believe that the academic is writing at the same time as the events in question and engaging in debates with the historical figures. It is often like they literally believe the author is in conversation with their sources. They don't see that the author is actually someone who has selected particular quotes and events in order to make a particular argument. They just think of him as another person walking around in this scene.

Your students are doing something pretty similar. The author uses a Cobain lyric to make some point, but they think the argument is Cobain's, probably because they never quite figured out what this thing they were reading was and what it was trying to do.

[Parasaurolophus]

I mean you don't have to be an academic to make an argument. If they were talking about an interview Cobain did where he made some sort of claim or laid out an idea, that would be fine. I agree that song lyrics aren't usually arguments, but I wouldn't really object to the idea that a song can make an argument or suggest one or something along those lines.

Of course. An argument is just a set of statements, at least one of which (a premise) is offered in support of another (a conclusion). They're found all over the place.

It's just that context makes it very clear that the students in question (1) don't know what an argument is or how to distinguish it from a statement, despite having gone over that in detail early on, (2) don't know who Kurt Cobain was (despite the article saying so), and (3) attribute the author's claims to Cobain. They routinely do this with people whose views are under discussion, but I've not seen them do it with a dead famous musician before.

Your students are doing something pretty similar. The author uses a Cobain lyric to make some point, but they think the argument is Cobain's, probably because they never quite figured out what this thing they were reading was and what it was trying to do.

Yeah. But they also clearly don't know who Cobain was. I'm optimistic that if it were someone still alive and on the pop radar they'd clue in to their mistake. Then again, maybe any proper name is fair game.

[the_geneticist]

One article I assigned makes a passing reference to a Nirvana lyrics. So, so many students are saying "Kurt Cobain argues" in their essays and then attributing a number of things to him, as if (1) it were an argument, and (2) he was an eminent academic.

Well, the the students are trying to figure out how to use information from/about the song lyrics in their essay.  The probably don't know (rightly so) 1) Cobain considered the lyrics to be the least important part of his songs and often wrote them last and 2) Nirvana's songs try to provoke a response in their audience through the sounds more than the words.

I'd give the students credit for making a solid attempt rather than fussing about the exact phrasing.