Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[ciao_yall]

We were asked if we could simply record and re-use materials from a discussion section so we didn't have to use TAs for online discussion classes. 
Uh, no. 
The entire point of a discussion class is the students talk with each other!  Even if we could record the breakout rooms on Zoom (and get permission to do this), why on earth would it help the students to watch other students talk about the material?

We did have a TA who did exactly this.  Recorded his first "discussion", then played that recording to his other sections.  During the synchronous discussion.  And had NO CLUE why that was such a bad plan.

Along with this, the eager-beaver faculty gush about how great it is that, if students don't understand something, they can rewind and relisten until they get it.

Um... if your explanation didn't make sense to them the first time, why will repeating it umpteen times help them? Isn't it better they explain why they are confused so you can reword your explanation?

[onthefringe]

We were asked if we could simply record and re-use materials from a discussion section so we didn't have to use TAs for online discussion classes. 
Uh, no. 
The entire point of a discussion class is the students talk with each other!  Even if we could record the breakout rooms on Zoom (and get permission to do this), why on earth would it help the students to watch other students talk about the material?

We did have a TA who did exactly this.  Recorded his first "discussion", then played that recording to his other sections.  During the synchronous discussion.  And had NO CLUE why that was such a bad plan.

Along with this, the eager-beaver faculty gush about how great it is that, if students don't understand something, they can rewind and relisten until they get it.

Um... if your explanation didn't make sense to them the first time, why will repeating it umpteen times help them? Isn't it better they explain why they are confused so you can reword your explanation?

For what it's worth, I am not an eager beaver but I do record and post my lectures in my more content driven classes. I explain at the beginning that I do it for students who are unavoidably absent or ill (I DON'T want students coming to class with covid of influenza), and warn them all that it won't adequately replace coming to class since some of what we do in class is still discussion and activity based. Since students earn essentially free points if they are in class when we do activities I don't see a dropoff in attendance and a subset of students do use the videos to study.

It's mostly when they find that they thought they DID understand my explanations in class but realize they missed something critical when they they can't actually do the practice problems or homework.

I don't record my more discussion based classes because that would completely miss the point. And I recently had to tell a student that even though his online physics class "only" overlapped with my discussion based class by 25 minutes, he could not put an earbud in so he could be "present" in both classes simultaneously.

[MarathonRunner]

I've always appreciated professors who recorded classes, and now I do it myself, because I don't want students coming to class when they ill (even virtually). Also, recordings are helpful for students with disabilities in many cases, including those who can't afford to get official accommodations. It's simple for me to do and it helps most students I deal with, so I'm happy to make the recordings. Most students still attend synchronously, so I don't see a problem with recording and making the recordings available.

I guess it depends on the type of students you have and the type of institution you are at. As someone who graduated at the top of the class, I was super grateful for profs who recorded lectures when I had shingles at far too young, or when I had a concussion, as I could still get most of the class content. The profs I had who recorded class still had most students attend in person. Now as a lecturer, my students tell me they appreciate that the synchronous lectures as recorded and available asynchronously. I still get plenty of engagement in the synchronous lectures.

[Caracal]

I've always appreciated professors who recorded classes, and now I do it myself, because I don't want students coming to class when they ill (even virtually). Also, recordings are helpful for students with disabilities in many cases, including those who can't afford to get official accommodations. It's simple for me to do and it helps most students I deal with, so I'm happy to make the recordings. Most students still attend synchronously, so I don't see a problem with recording and making the recordings available.

I guess it depends on the type of students you have and the type of institution you are at. As someone who graduated at the top of the class, I was super grateful for profs who recorded lectures when I had shingles at far too young, or when I had a concussion, as I could still get most of the class content. The profs I had who recorded class still had most students attend in person. Now as a lecturer, my students tell me they appreciate that the synchronous lectures as recorded and available asynchronously. I still get plenty of engagement in the synchronous lectures.

If your classrooms are easily set up for this, and you don't mix much discussion into lectures, and/or you have TA support, I can see the argument for this, but for me it would just be a huge amount of extra work. I'm also not really sure it's necessary anyway. If students miss class they can get notes and I'm happy to talk through anything with them in a meeting if they think that would be helpful.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

I swear, I'm getting really annoyed with students who either don't read the syllabus, don't care, read it and still try to do something that they're not allowed to do, or something else. I think this is the third or fourth email this week from my synchronous online class from a student who missed a quiz during class.

Student (summarized): "I had multiple Murphy's Law life issues happen. Can I make up the quiz?"

Fantasy reply: "Did you read the damn syllabus? Did you see the part where there are no makeups and you get to drop TWO quizzes? Stop wasting my damn time."

Edit: I really try to be accommodating to students, but I have to draw a line somewhere- right?

[Cheerful]

Student (summarized): "I had multiple Murphy's Law life issues happen. Can I make up the quiz?"
Fantasy reply: "Did you read the damn syllabus? Did you see the part where there are no makeups and you get to drop TWO quizzes? Stop wasting my damn time."
Edit: I really try to be accommodating to students, but I have to draw a line somewhere- right?

Don't waste time.  Just a quick reply:  "Please see p. 3 of syllabus."  Set the tone early to avoid umpteen emails and pleas all semester.

[RatGuy]

At what point in the semester do you expect students to have the assigned books? In my case, the university bookstore did indeed flub my order. My books are also readily available from online retailers. But a poll of my class at the end of week 2 informed me that only about 33% had the book in hand that day (a few others said that their amazon orders were running late). I've assigned PDFs of small readings for the first two weeks, but week 3 I expect them to have the book. Am I expecting too much?

[Caracal]

Student (summarized): "I had multiple Murphy's Law life issues happen. Can I make up the quiz?"
Fantasy reply: "Did you read the damn syllabus? Did you see the part where there are no makeups and you get to drop TWO quizzes? Stop wasting my damn time."
Edit: I really try to be accommodating to students, but I have to draw a line somewhere- right?

Don't waste time.  Just a quick reply:  "Please see p. 3 of syllabus."  Set the tone early to avoid umpteen emails and pleas all semester.

That's fair, but honestly, I find it easier to just say or write "Because the point of the quizzes is to remind everyone to do the reading before classes, I don't allow makeups, however, you can miss two without penalty, so not a big deal!" and then just repeat that constantly. It would be nice if all students actually just looked at the syllabus, but many of them don't, so what's the point of being grumpy about it.

[EdnaMode]

At what point in the semester do you expect students to have the assigned books? In my case, the university bookstore did indeed flub my order. My books are also readily available from online retailers. But a poll of my class at the end of week 2 informed me that only about 33% had the book in hand that day (a few others said that their amazon orders were running late). I've assigned PDFs of small readings for the first two weeks, but week 3 I expect them to have the book. Am I expecting too much?

Even if the bookstore flubbed your order, if the books were available at the bookstore at some point during week one, then I'd expect everyone to have the books by week 2. I tell students if they choose to order online, and the book is late, that is on them, they're still responsible for the material, and to borrow a book from a classmate or otherwise make do until their book arrives. In all my courses that have books, I generally am making assignments from them during the first week and don't post content online.

[AmLitHist]

Student (summarized): "I had multiple Murphy's Law life issues happen. Can I make up the quiz?"
Fantasy reply: "Did you read the damn syllabus? Did you see the part where there are no makeups and you get to drop TWO quizzes? Stop wasting my damn time."
Edit: I really try to be accommodating to students, but I have to draw a line somewhere- right?

Don't waste time.  Just a quick reply:  "Please see p. 3 of syllabus."  Set the tone early to avoid umpteen emails and pleas all semester.

I also have language in the syllabus that says, "Your definition of an emergency and mine might be different.  We will use my definition."

[AvidReader]

At what point in the semester do you expect students to have the assigned books? In my case, the university bookstore did indeed flub my order. My books are also readily available from online retailers. But a poll of my class at the end of week 2 informed me that only about 33% had the book in hand that day (a few others said that their amazon orders were running late). I've assigned PDFs of small readings for the first two weeks, but week 3 I expect them to have the book. Am I expecting too much?

Some students I have taught cannot get books from online retailers (for instance, those on some forms of financial aid). So if it is not available in the bookstore because of the flub, could you put a copy on reserve at the library? Motivated students can go and scan or read what they need.

AR.

[RatGuy]

At what point in the semester do you expect students to have the assigned books? In my case, the university bookstore did indeed flub my order. My books are also readily available from online retailers. But a poll of my class at the end of week 2 informed me that only about 33% had the book in hand that day (a few others said that their amazon orders were running late). I've assigned PDFs of small readings for the first two weeks, but week 3 I expect them to have the book. Am I expecting too much?

Some students I have taught cannot get books from online retailers (for instance, those on some forms of financial aid). So if it is not available in the bookstore because of the flub, could you put a copy on reserve at the library? Motivated students can go and scan or read what they need.

AR.

Good idea, and it's been implemented.

Turns out, if a publisher (in this case, Norton) decides to discontinue a title at the start of 2023 but after book orders have been submitted, the bookstore will a) not do anything and b) not contact me to say that the book wasn't obtained. They sell off old stock and nothing else. And students (and faculty) here don't see the books on the shelves; they complete an online survey of courses and just pick up the books. They learn at that time the bookstore doesn't have copies of their textbook, and don't offer any ways to get it. Luckily there's a Penguin version available, and I had to get the bookstore to order it -- only after most of my students said "the bookstore doesn't have it." Such a dumb process.

[apl68]

I've seen a university bookstore make such a mess out of so many different courses' and profs' book orders that the university finally outsourced its ordering process.  The bookstore staffers who had been making such a hash of it effectively did themselves out of a job.  All this happened after enough profs compared notes to realize that it wasn't just them, individually, being unlucky--flubbed orders were more the norm at this place.

[Larimar]

I also have language in the syllabus that says, "Your definition of an emergency and mine might be different.  We will use my definition."

LOL! I am so stealing this!

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Student (summarized): "I had multiple Murphy's Law life issues happen. Can I make up the quiz?"
Fantasy reply: "Did you read the damn syllabus? Did you see the part where there are no makeups and you get to drop TWO quizzes? Stop wasting my damn time."
Edit: I really try to be accommodating to students, but I have to draw a line somewhere- right?

Don't waste time.  Just a quick reply:  "Please see p. 3 of syllabus."  Set the tone early to avoid umpteen emails and pleas all semester.

That's fair, but honestly, I find it easier to just say or write "Because the point of the quizzes is to remind everyone to do the reading before classes, I don't allow makeups, however, you can miss two without penalty, so not a big deal!" and then just repeat that constantly. It would be nice if all students actually just looked at the syllabus, but many of them don't, so what's the point of being grumpy about it.

The Grinch has been my spirit animal for the month. :)