Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[bio-nonymous]

We haven't asked for doctors notes since the swine flu, back in 2009? We didn't want sick students, who should be resting and recovering, going to health service and infecting others. Plus, here (Canada) doctors notes aren't covered by provincial health care, so you have to pay out of pocket for them, and many students can't afford it. We trust our students. Now, with COVID, it's even more important to allow COVID positive students to stay home and recover, and not infect others, since COVID can potentially damage almost every body system, including the heart and brain.

The ones who are genuinely ill get time to recover and catch up. Those that lie end up doing poorly, even with extra time or deferred exams. I'd rather trust my students than have to determine if their excuse is valid or their documentation correct.

I benefited from profs who trusted me when I said I had to be in hospital during finals, and profs either let me take the exam early, late, or in one case just gave me the class average (small, fourth year class, ten students in total). So I treat students how I was treated.

I honestly couldn't care less if students come to class or not, they are adults and can make their own decisions (even in programs with mandatory attendance-I do not check). But if they miss an exam it is a MAJOR hassle for everyone--thus the emphasis that you can only miss an exam for extraordinary circumstances--not just because you didn't feel like showing up that day. Obviously if you are sick, you are sick, and no one wants you around them.

[MarathonRunner]

We haven't asked for doctors notes since the swine flu, back in 2009? We didn't want sick students, who should be resting and recovering, going to health service and infecting others. Plus, here (Canada) doctors notes aren't covered by provincial health care, so you have to pay out of pocket for them, and many students can't afford it. We trust our students. Now, with COVID, it's even more important to allow COVID positive students to stay home and recover, and not infect others, since COVID can potentially damage almost every body system, including the heart and brain.

The ones who are genuinely ill get time to recover and catch up. Those that lie end up doing poorly, even with extra time or deferred exams. I'd rather trust my students than have to determine if their excuse is valid or their documentation correct.

I benefited from profs who trusted me when I said I had to be in hospital during finals, and profs either let me take the exam early, late, or in one case just gave me the class average (small, fourth year class, ten students in total). So I treat students how I was treated.

I honestly couldn't care less if students come to class or not, they are adults and can make their own decisions (even in programs with mandatory attendance-I do not check). But if they miss an exam it is a MAJOR hassle for everyone--thus the emphasis that you can only miss an exam for extraordinary circumstances--not just because you didn't feel like showing up that day. Obviously if you are sick, you are sick, and no one wants you around them.

Not a hassle anywhere I've been. Miss a midterm? The lowest is dropped, so if you miss one, that's your dropped mark. If you miss more than one, that's what the program counsellor is for, instructors don't have to deal with it. Miss a final? Well, some finals are the same as midterms, so again, it gets dropped if you haven't missed any others. If you have or if the final is worth more, deferred exams have been a thing since at least the 1990s, and maybe earlier. Program counsellors take care of all of this. The most an instructor might have to do is create the deferred exam, but, at least where I'm a postdoc, there are plenty of previous exams to draw upon. Even my postdoc supervisor doesn't have to write exams from scratch. Even updating things to reflect new knowledge doesn't take long in my experience. Maybe it is different in the U.S. or at different universities, but for us, it's not a problem.

From reading here, it seems a lot of universities don't have professional program counsellors, and expect faculty members to do that work. In that case, I can see it would be a hassle for the prof/instructor, if they have to not only do the instructor/prof job, but also the program counsellor's job. But how do faculty outside of social work or clinical psychology do that properly? Other fields aren't trained in counselling.

[Puget]

From reading here, it seems a lot of universities don't have professional program counsellors, and expect faculty members to do that work. In that case, I can see it would be a hassle for the prof/instructor, if they have to not only do the instructor/prof job, but also the program counsellor's job. But how do faculty outside of social work or clinical psychology do that properly? Other fields aren't trained in counselling.

For actual psychological counseling, we'd refer to the counseling center, but that has nothing to do with such academic maters as rescheduling exams. There are staff academic advisors that can be looped in when students are really struggling academically, but again, they aren't involved in day to day course policy and practice issues like this.

I think you'll find if you become a faculty member that a great deal of your job involves things you were never formally trained to do, especially if you are running a lab, which is a lot like running a small business in many ways. If you are a postdoc in a lab field, do yourself a favor and ask your PI to go through some of those things (e.g., budgeting, HR tasks, etc, etc.) with you so you're prepared.

[permanent imposter]

From reading here, it seems a lot of universities don't have professional program counsellors, and expect faculty members to do that work. In that case, I can see it would be a hassle for the prof/instructor, if they have to not only do the instructor/prof job, but also the program counsellor's job. But how do faculty outside of social work or clinical psychology do that properly? Other fields aren't trained in counselling.

So what exactly does a program counselor do? It doesn't sound like they do psychological counseling. Are they more like academic advisors? Helping students create a manageable workload/reschedule exams/interface with professors if they have a major life event?

[MarathonRunner]

From reading here, it seems a lot of universities don't have professional program counsellors, and expect faculty members to do that work. In that case, I can see it would be a hassle for the prof/instructor, if they have to not only do the instructor/prof job, but also the program counsellor's job. But how do faculty outside of social work or clinical psychology do that properly? Other fields aren't trained in counselling.

So what exactly does a program counselor do? It doesn't sound like they do psychological counseling. Are they more like academic advisors? Helping students create a manageable workload/reschedule exams/interface with professors if they have a major life event?

They advise students, especially transfer students or students who aren't following the typical path, on what courses to take. They advocate for students with accommodations, especially if the accommodations are not just extra time for assignments or exams. They counsel students on choosing the right courses for future careers, especially with regards to electives and restricted electives (take x number of courses from this list of y). They provide career counselling for majors in the department. They manage the deferred exam schedule for faculty and students. They help students dealing with life stuff, counselling on whether it is better to skip a semester or whether accommodations are enough to help them succeed. They deal with temporary accommodations (a sprained wrist, a broken bone) - things that accessibility services doesn't deal with because they aren't something that endures. They provide advice on potential alternate courses, if someone isn't following the standard progression, for whatever reason. They advise students on the courses that are necessary to qualify for further requirements to obtain a professional designation. They are often the first line for students in distress, who might not need counselling services, but who need reassurance that one B isn't going to condemn them for life, or to help them figure out their course plan if they failed a course, and what options are available if that course is a prerequisite, an elective, a restricted elective, etc. They, of course, refer to counselling services when there is clearly something going on. They act as an intermediary between counselling services and professors/lecturers when required or between accessibility services and profs/lecturers when required. They help students choose between different course options. Mine came with me to talk about the accommodations I needed in a certain course with a professor, after I had suffered a concussion, to safeguard my health while ensuring I met all of the course's requirements. They do a lot! I certainly don't expect profs to do all that.

[marshwiggle]

From reading here, it seems a lot of universities don't have professional program counsellors, and expect faculty members to do that work. In that case, I can see it would be a hassle for the prof/instructor, if they have to not only do the instructor/prof job, but also the program counsellor's job. But how do faculty outside of social work or clinical psychology do that properly? Other fields aren't trained in counselling.

So what exactly does a program counselor do? It doesn't sound like they do psychological counseling. Are they more like academic advisors? Helping students create a manageable workload/reschedule exams/interface with professors if they have a major life event?

They advise students, especially transfer students or students who aren't following the typical path, on what courses to take. They advocate for students with accommodations, especially if the accommodations are not just extra time for assignments or exams. They counsel students on choosing the right courses for future careers, especially with regards to electives and restricted electives (take x number of courses from this list of y). They provide career counselling for majors in the department. They manage the deferred exam schedule for faculty and students. They help students dealing with life stuff, counselling on whether it is better to skip a semester or whether accommodations are enough to help them succeed. They deal with temporary accommodations (a sprained wrist, a broken bone) - things that accessibility services doesn't deal with because they aren't something that endures. They provide advice on potential alternate courses, if someone isn't following the standard progression, for whatever reason. They advise students on the courses that are necessary to qualify for further requirements to obtain a professional designation. They are often the first line for students in distress, who might not need counselling services, but who need reassurance that one B isn't going to condemn them for life, or to help them figure out their course plan if they failed a course, and what options are available if that course is a prerequisite, an elective, a restricted elective, etc. They, of course, refer to counselling services when there is clearly something going on. They act as an intermediary between counselling services and professors/lecturers when required or between accessibility services and profs/lecturers when required. They help students choose between different course options. Mine came with me to talk about the accommodations I needed in a certain course with a professor, after I had suffered a concussion, to safeguard my health while ensuring I met all of the course's requirements. They do a lot! I certainly don't expect profs to do all that.

How many of these would there be for a department, faculty, or whatever? It seems like there would have to be a lot of them to deal with all those kinds of things.

[Chemystery]

From reading here, it seems a lot of universities don't have professional program counsellors, and expect faculty members to do that work. In that case, I can see it would be a hassle for the prof/instructor, if they have to not only do the instructor/prof job, but also the program counsellor's job. But how do faculty outside of social work or clinical psychology do that properly? Other fields aren't trained in counselling.

So what exactly does a program counselor do? It doesn't sound like they do psychological counseling. Are they more like academic advisors? Helping students create a manageable workload/reschedule exams/interface with professors if they have a major life event?

They advise students, especially transfer students or students who aren't following the typical path, on what courses to take. They advocate for students with accommodations, especially if the accommodations are not just extra time for assignments or exams. They counsel students on choosing the right courses for future careers, especially with regards to electives and restricted electives (take x number of courses from this list of y). They provide career counselling for majors in the department. They manage the deferred exam schedule for faculty and students. They help students dealing with life stuff, counselling on whether it is better to skip a semester or whether accommodations are enough to help them succeed. They deal with temporary accommodations (a sprained wrist, a broken bone) - things that accessibility services doesn't deal with because they aren't something that endures. They provide advice on potential alternate courses, if someone isn't following the standard progression, for whatever reason. They advise students on the courses that are necessary to qualify for further requirements to obtain a professional designation. They are often the first line for students in distress, who might not need counselling services, but who need reassurance that one B isn't going to condemn them for life, or to help them figure out their course plan if they failed a course, and what options are available if that course is a prerequisite, an elective, a restricted elective, etc. They, of course, refer to counselling services when there is clearly something going on. They act as an intermediary between counselling services and professors/lecturers when required or between accessibility services and profs/lecturers when required. They help students choose between different course options. Mine came with me to talk about the accommodations I needed in a certain course with a professor, after I had suffered a concussion, to safeguard my health while ensuring I met all of the course's requirements. They do a lot! I certainly don't expect profs to do all that.

How many of these would there be for a department, faculty, or whatever? It seems like there would have to be a lot of them to deal with all those kinds of things.

At my institution, professors do almost none of these things.  Most of these responsibilities would be divided among three different offices:  advising, Office of Disability Services, and the Dean of Students.  The only tasks in this list that professors would engage in is advising of upper level students within their respective majors and making decisions regarding acceptable substitutions to required courses in the major.  The latter responsibility would normally fall to the department chair.

[MarathonRunner]

How many of these would there be for a department, faculty, or whatever? It seems like there would have to be a lot of them to deal with all those kinds of things.

For small programs, one per major. For large programs (i.e. biological sciences), between four and six, depending on how many students are enrolled in the major.

[MarathonRunner]

At my institution, professors do almost none of these things.  Most of these responsibilities would be divided among three different offices:  advising, Office of Disability Services, and the Dean of Students.  The only tasks in this list that professors would engage in is advising of upper level students within their respective majors and making decisions regarding acceptable substitutions to required courses in the major.  The latter responsibility would normally fall to the department chair.

None of the Canadian universities I've attended (or worked at) have a "Dean of Students." I hear about that position all the time here, but that position doesn't exist at any of the four Canadian universities where I've been a student or postdoc. That's why we have program advisors - I guess they do a lot of the work that a Dean of Students does, but on a smaller level (i.e. only for a given program or major)? We also have accessibility services, and they handle accommodations, but only for conditions that are not transitory. For shorter-term things that are expected to heal or be resolved within a semester, the program advisor handles those.

[marshwiggle]

How many of these would there be for a department, faculty, or whatever? It seems like there would have to be a lot of them to deal with all those kinds of things.

For small programs, one per major. For large programs (i.e. biological sciences), between four and six, depending on how many students are enrolled in the major.

That is a lot, if they're full-time positions. (By contrast, a departmental academic advisor here typically gets a single course relief, so it amounts to about 1/5 of a faculty position for one program.)
 

[FishProf]

Mid-term exam today (held in lab so there is plenty of time).

Lecture this morning was a review session.  1/3 of class didn't show, and they are now in various phases of whining, anger, or despair about what they "didn't know would be on the test".

There is nothing on the test they haven't been warned about, and we covered enough in the review today to pass.  Why didn't you come to a review session DURING your regularly scheduled class time?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Puget]

Here's a first-- Student plagiarized the freaking example outline I gave them! Just flat out paraphrased the example, which was on a totally different topic and supposed to just give them an idea of how to do a detailed outline, and substituted in her topic key words in places. References do not fit the outline at all of course, since the plagiarized outline is not on her topic. Did she think I wouldn't notice? I, who posted that very example and am quite familiar with it? Just boggled.

Bonus points- it was due by the start of class and she submitted it during class.

And this was a student who begged me to be a reference for a transfer application with 10 days notice and I foolishly agreed. Now that short but vaguely positive letter has already been submitted, and she pulls this.

Since she's a sophomore and an international student and may just need some education here, I've decided to give her a zero and a talking to rather than report her to the conduct board. But you better bet her final paper is going to get extra special plagiarism scrutiny (they already go through Turnitin).

[kaysixteen]

Couldn't you send along a codicil to the transfer school explaining, ahem, these developments?

[Antiphon1]

A student and her parent asked me point blank which question bank I used for tests and why I used time and navigation restrictions for the online quizzes. Uh, WTF? Either these two are the biggest Bozos ever to cross my office threshold, or they think I'm the biggest Bozo on campus.  How about my job as a professor is assessing your grasp of the subject matter not aiding in your cheating scheme?  Damn, just damn.   

[Langue_doc]

Since she's a sophomore and an international student and may just need some education here, I've decided to give her a zero and a talking to rather than report her to the conduct board. But you better bet her final paper is going to get extra special plagiarism scrutiny (they already go through Turnitin).

International students need to be held to the same standards as the rest of the class. Stu has probably pulled this stunt in other courses, and gotten away with it because of the "woe is me, I'll lose my visa if I fail the course" excuse.