Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[the_geneticist]

Assignments update:  I have had about 1/3 of my classes drop as they started racking up zeros (that is a win).  I've also had most of those seats taken by late adds, so that's a new problem.  What do I do with those?

Some added, then did nothing.  Others added, then emailed me immediately, so they are on the ball (not counting adding late).  Seems like different solutions are warranted.

Just send one email to all the late adds.  Students who want to catch up will do the work.

"Welcome to online [baskets 101]!  Glad you could join the course. Since class started on [date], please see the [syllabus/module 1/etc] to get started.  [something about finish X, y, z by a certain day; read the previous announcements]"

[spork]

A new low in the maturity, initiative, and curiosity of students that my employer has recruited: for the first time I'm receiving late night emails (which I don't reply to for at least 24 hours) asking questions to the effect of "Do we do tomorrow's assignment using information from the book chapters that are listed for the assignment in the syllabus and in the directions for the assignment?"

[marshwiggle]

A new low in the maturity, initiative, and curiosity of students that my employer has recruited: for the first time I'm receiving late night emails (which I don't reply to for at least 24 hours) asking questions to the effect of "Do we do tomorrow's assignment using information from the book chapters that are listed for the assignment in the syllabus and in the directions for the assignment?"

Yeah, with these types of questions it's not even clear what kind of answer they're expecting other than, "It's OK; you can just skip it." (Well, short of a "sample answer" that they can just cut-and-paste and submit.)

[Sea_Ice]

A new low in the maturity, initiative, and curiosity of students that my employer has recruited: for the first time I'm receiving late night emails (which I don't reply to for at least 24 hours) asking questions to the effect of "Do we do tomorrow's assignment using information from the book chapters that are listed for the assignment in the syllabus and in the directions for the assignment?"

"Dear Student,

Yes.

Sincerely,

Prof. Spork"

I've seen these and similar things before, mostly in first semester students, and try to be kind at first b/c there's no telling what sort of miserably incompetent K12 experience they had.  Exactly why so many are unable to believe that the directions are complete and sufficient as written, I don't know.  But they do need to learn to follow them, and not feel required to second guess things, or over-think them, and perhaps even need to learn to believe that they did indeed comprehend them correctly.

That last is a major possibility when the student has been pounded into a state of near-complete learned helplessness.

[FishProf]

Due Date Saga - ep 3:

It is 3d past the add/drop deadline.  A new student has emailed me  to inform me she joined on the 18th and to request that I open up everything she missed.  I am left to ponder why you would join at the very last moment and then NOT reach out to the professor until 3d have passed.

Also, 3 students have now let 11 due dates pass without doing anything.

It would be cheaper if they took the $1k for the course, gave me $400 and kept $600 for themselves, then to burn it like this.

[kaysixteen]

'miserably incompetent', perhaps, but it also may well be that the students have been told to do this sort of thing by their parents.  It is also true that one of the very most glaring weaknesses seen in most American high schools, public and private alike, is that they generally do a craptastic job prepping their seniors for college.

[apl68]

We're seeing more and more just how badly the prolonged COVID shutdowns and other COVID disruptions have damaged our nation's youth and their educations.

[marshwiggle]

'miserably incompetent', perhaps, but it also may well be that the students have been told to do this sort of thing by their parents.  It is also true that one of the very most glaring weaknesses seen in most American high schools, public and private alike, is that they generally do a craptastic job prepping their seniors for college.

This is a consequence of perpetuating the myth that everyone who graduates from high school should automatically be prepared for post-secondary education. It conflates "getting everyone through" to "preparing everyone for the expected next step". Making sure everyone gets through requires lowering the bar for achievement until everyone can meet it, which makes them overall less prepared for higher education.

[kaysixteen]

Yes, this is certainly true, but what I was getting at here was that the hss do a lousy job prepping even those seniors who will certainly be going to college, and can certainly succeed there, for the very different atmosphere/ expectations of college.  Many of the comments seen on the fora over the years, from profs who quite frankly whine about freshman behavior, etc., stem largely from this problem.

[fishbrains]

A new low in the maturity, initiative, and curiosity of students that my employer has recruited: for the first time I'm receiving late night emails (which I don't reply to for at least 24 hours) asking questions to the effect of "Do we do tomorrow's assignment using information from the book chapters that are listed for the assignment in the syllabus and in the directions for the assignment?"

"Dear Student,

Yes.

Sincerely,

Prof. Spork"

I've seen these and similar things before, mostly in first semester students, and try to be kind at first b/c there's no telling what sort of miserably incompetent K12 experience they had.  Exactly why so many are unable to believe that the directions are complete and sufficient as written, I don't know.  But they do need to learn to follow them, and not feel required to second guess things, or over-think them, and perhaps even need to learn to believe that they did indeed comprehend them correctly.

That last is a major possibility when the student has been pounded into a state of near-complete learned helplessness.

Now that my kids are in college, I have noticed that many professors--especially those teaching online--do not give very clear directions. In fact, I've had my daughters come up to me and ask, "What are they looking for here?" and my response has been, "Beats the f*ck outta me. Email them for clarification."

I'm sure Spork's directions are clear, but I can see why some students might be a bit skittish with directions. And don't get me started about trying to get faculty to read and/or follow directions . . .

[the_geneticist]

The new freshmen are such an interesting mix of planning ahead & yet not using said information. 
They want to know "how many questions will be on the final?", but haven't put the DATE of the final exam in their calendar/planner/whatever.

It's Day 1. 

[Hegemony]

Now that my kids are in college, I have noticed that many professors--especially those teaching online--do not give very clear directions. In fact, I've had my daughters come up to me and ask, "What are they looking for here?" and my response has been, "Beats the f*ck outta me. Email them for clarification."

I'm sure Spork's directions are clear, but I can see why some students might be a bit skittish with directions. And don't get me started about trying to get faculty to read and/or follow directions . .

Now that my kid's in college, I have the same response. I can see how a student might legitimately have that question, given some of the previous classes they may have had. In some, you're not supposed to use that week's material, but give a "cold" response. In some you're supposed to use the previous week's material. In some you're apparently supposed to divine nonsensical directions from the ether. I have been horrified to see how some of my colleagues have run their courses. One, for instance, had three due dates for the same assignment, and when my son emailed to ask what the real due date was, never got an answer. That same prof had four different LMS locations for each week's assignments (one would be under "Exercises," one would be under "Week 4," one would be under "Further study" and one would be under "Things to Remember." Except not every week had assignments under each. It was chaos.) I think when students are nervous and afraid they haven't understood the instructions, they frequently have had a teacher like that in their past, and they are understandably anxious.

[bio-nonymous]

Two traditionally-aged grad students working in my lab were unable to figure out how to save their data to a flash drive. They said,"We didn't know how to do it, so we didn't do it."

Digital natives my a%$^#!

It is shocking that they got 4 year college degrees and still have no clue how to do this. But worse yet, there was no way for these grad students to, say, ask Google, "Google, how do you save a file from a PC to a flash drive?"

Now I have to go across to another building to pull the data from the machine they were using. The saddest thing is that when I was showing them how to use the equipment, I SHOWED THEM HOW TO SAVE THE DATA! Not very helpful Research Assistants...

:(

UGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

[sinenomine]

Two traditionally-aged grad students working in my lab were unable to figure out how to save their data to a flash drive. They said,"We didn't know how to do it, so we didn't do it."

Digital natives my a%$^#!

It is shocking that they got 4 year college degrees and still have no clue how to do this. But worse yet, there was no way for these grad students to, say, ask Google, "Google, how do you save a file from a PC to a flash drive?"

Now I have to go across to another building to pull the data from the machine they were using. The saddest thing is that when I was showing them how to use the equipment, I SHOWED THEM HOW TO SAVE THE DATA! Not very helpful Research Assistants...

:(

UGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

Wow. I see learned helplessness like that with some undergrads, but grad students — sheesh!

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Two traditionally-aged grad students working in my lab were unable to figure out how to save their data to a flash drive. They said,"We didn't know how to do it, so we didn't do it."

Digital natives my a%$^#!

It is shocking that they got 4 year college degrees and still have no clue how to do this. But worse yet, there was no way for these grad students to, say, ask Google, "Google, how do you save a file from a PC to a flash drive?"

Now I have to go across to another building to pull the data from the machine they were using. The saddest thing is that when I was showing them how to use the equipment, I SHOWED THEM HOW TO SAVE THE DATA! Not very helpful Research Assistants...

:(

UGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

Wow. I see learned helplessness like that with some undergrads, but grad students — sheesh!

Dang!