Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[downer]

For sure, I experience that a lot. I'm not even particularly consistent in my responses to individual requests. But I do tend to distinguish between the student being unfortunate due to bad circumstances and the student making stupid decisions (like taking 4 summer courses they can't keep up with). Sometimes I have students taking 7 classes during the regular semester. Some carry it off, but not always. When they are the ones who are playing the high risk game, they have to take the consequences if it ends up being too much.

[Anon1787]

Does anyone else kind of vacillate between, 'Damn, there's a lot of shit going on in the world, maybe I should cut this kid some slack? You know, everybody gets "one" freebie.' and 'Dammit! Why the hell are you telling me this now? I'm not responsible for you deciding to take FOUR classes over the summer!'

Rarely. I have cut some slack only for students who otherwise had a solid track record. Since I'm sure that you warned students ad nauseum about the pace and workload of your summer course, I would tell that student to consider dropping the course now so that they can concentrate on their remaining classes. 

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

I checked and this ding dong missed half of the quizzes (really short tests). We are halfway through the summer semester. This kid's going to be pretty disappointed when I tell stu, 'No. I am not opening up half of the quizzes for you to take when everyone else paid attention and read the damn syllabus AND read my announcement reminders AND took the quizzes.' This kid's probably going to fail. Sheesh!

[Caracal]

For sure, I experience that a lot. I'm not even particularly consistent in my responses to individual requests. But I do tend to distinguish between the student being unfortunate due to bad circumstances and the student making stupid decisions (like taking 4 summer courses they can't keep up with). Sometimes I have students taking 7 classes during the regular semester. Some carry it off, but not always. When they are the ones who are playing the high risk game, they have to take the consequences if it ends up being too much.

Yeah, I try to make those distinctions too, but it can get tricky. Sometimes its easy enough. Hospitalizations and concussions are obviously bad circumstances and I make allowances. It's all the other stuff that can be impossible to be consistent with. On some level, if you are failing a class because you aren't submitting things, there's probably something going on. Mental health stuff gets tricky. My impulse is to tell students who have car issues and can't get to class for weeks that I already drop several assignments to account for this kind of thing and can't do much else about it, but I often worry that I bring my own standards to these things in unfair ways. If I got a serious illness, that would certainly keep me from coming to class. If my car breaks down, I'm still going to be there unless I'm on the side of the road when class is happening. But that's because I have enough financial security to pay for repairs to my car, get a new one if I have to and get to class while I'm dealing with the whole thing.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Have I mentioned that this is an online class? SMH. I guess I should be banging my head.

[the_geneticist]

Ugh.  I'm teaching a summer course that is about 1/4 students from [other major] who are taking this class to get ahead during the summer. These students are awesome. They are organized, thoughtful, and stay on task.  They are also juniors taking a freshman level class so they are honestly too advanced to be taking it this late, but they are great students.  The other 3/4 are students who have previously attempted the course and dropped or failed.  Some of them more than once.  The "go to class, turn stuff in" advice isn't sticking.
One repeater is upset that they scored a 0 on an assignment.  Why? They turned in another student's work.  They are claiming they "didn't know" it was supposed to be a picture and description of their (basket) as opposed to any (basket). 
And no one is taking advantage of the extra credit that's due this week.  I anticipate much whining.

[downer]

It's a shame that it is frowned upon to reply to these students: Booooohooooo.

[OneMoreYear]

Ugh.  I'm teaching a summer course that is about 1/4 students from [other major] who are taking this class to get ahead during the summer. These students are awesome. They are organized, thoughtful, and stay on task.  They are also juniors taking a freshman level class so they are honestly too advanced to be taking it this late, but they are great students. The other 3/4 are students who have previously attempted the course and dropped or failed. Some of them more than once.  The "go to class, turn stuff in" advice isn't sticking.
One repeater is upset that they scored a 0 on an assignment.  Why? They turned in another student's work.  They are claiming they "didn't know" it was supposed to be a picture and description of their (basket) as opposed to any (basket). 
And no one is taking advantage of the extra credit that's due this week.  I anticipate much whining.

How did you end up with 3/4 of your class being students who have been unsuccessful previously? Was this summer course added specifically to give students anther attempt? I would think that set-up would lead to a very low pass rate. At least you have the other 1/4 of the class who will likely pass!

[AmLitHist]

This is an email series, in the order exchanged, but it really fits this thread:

#1:

Professor,

Is the points I got and will earn there not enough to pass?  Did writing center points help me?   I have been going a lot. 

#2:

[Student],

As of the end of Module 2, you've earned 218 total points.  To pass with the lowest C, you need at least 700 points, so you'd need an additional 482 points to pass.  With only 470 points remaining in the semester, it's impossible for you to pass--even if you'd earn every one of those remaining points, it wouldn't be enough to bring your grade up to the 700 required.

No points are awarded to anyone for visiting the Writing Center. Working with them is an optional activity intended to improve your skills so that your scores on the regular assignments will improve.

Prof. [Hist]

#3: 

Professor
I s there anything I can do to get a B?

Um. . . . .  <thud - thud - thud> (though it probably explains why the grade is what it is)

[the_geneticist]

Ugh.  I'm teaching a summer course that is about 1/4 students from [other major] who are taking this class to get ahead during the summer. These students are awesome. They are organized, thoughtful, and stay on task.  They are also juniors taking a freshman level class so they are honestly too advanced to be taking it this late, but they are great students. The other 3/4 are students who have previously attempted the course and dropped or failed. Some of them more than once.  The "go to class, turn stuff in" advice isn't sticking.
One repeater is upset that they scored a 0 on an assignment.  Why? They turned in another student's work.  They are claiming they "didn't know" it was supposed to be a picture and description of their (basket) as opposed to any (basket). 
And no one is taking advantage of the extra credit that's due this week.  I anticipate much whining.

How did you end up with 3/4 of your class being students who have been unsuccessful previously? Was this summer course added specifically to give students anther attempt? I would think that set-up would lead to a very low pass rate. At least you have the other 1/4 of the class who will likely pass!

We offer this course every quarter.  My university extended the drop dates until AFTER final exams due to COVID.  Then put the drop date with no W as week 8 of 10.  Normally, we only allow 2 attempts - fail twice and you get kicked out of the major.  But the super late drop date meant I have students who didn't *technically* fail since they dropped.  More than once for some of them.  I think these students either ought to change majors or take a break from college, but I'm not an advisor. 
I want them to succeed, but I'm not dragging them kicking and screaming towards passing.  They have to come to class and turn stuff in.

[Anon1787]

This is an email series, in the order exchanged, but it really fits this thread:

#1:

Professor,

Is the points I got and will earn there not enough to pass?  Did writing center points help me?   I have been going a lot. 

#2:

[Student],

As of the end of Module 2, you've earned 218 total points.  To pass with the lowest C, you need at least 700 points, so you'd need an additional 482 points to pass.  With only 470 points remaining in the semester, it's impossible for you to pass--even if you'd earn every one of those remaining points, it wouldn't be enough to bring your grade up to the 700 required.

No points are awarded to anyone for visiting the Writing Center. Working with them is an optional activity intended to improve your skills so that your scores on the regular assignments will improve.

Prof. [Hist]

#3: 

Professor
I s there anything I can do to get a B?

Um. . . . .  <thud - thud - thud> (though it probably explains why the grade is what it is)

You forgot to mention the easy extra credit assignment worth 500 points.

[downer]

Maybe you needed to add "You Cannot Pass. You Shall Not Pass!"

[the_geneticist]

This is an email series, in the order exchanged, but it really fits this thread:

#1:

Professor,

Is the points I got and will earn there not enough to pass?  Did writing center points help me?   I have been going a lot. 

#2:

[Student],

As of the end of Module 2, you've earned 218 total points.  To pass with the lowest C, you need at least 700 points, so you'd need an additional 482 points to pass.  With only 470 points remaining in the semester, it's impossible for you to pass--even if you'd earn every one of those remaining points, it wouldn't be enough to bring your grade up to the 700 required.

No points are awarded to anyone for visiting the Writing Center. Working with them is an optional activity intended to improve your skills so that your scores on the regular assignments will improve.

Prof. [Hist]

#3: 

Professor
I s there anything I can do to get a B?

Um. . . . .  <thud - thud - thud> (though it probably explains why the grade is what it is)

You forgot to mention the easy extra credit assignment worth 500 points.

At least it's mathematically impossible for your student to pass.  That's an easier conversation than the "it's technically possible for you to pass, but not if you earn the same scores on the remaining work as your previous work.  Realistically, you will not pass."

[mamselle]

Maybe something like:

"A Hail Mary throw at the end of the game doesn't usually end up with a completed pass. Some poor receiver usually just winds up on their knees in the mud in the end zone..."

Just to put it in language they might understand...

M.

[Caracal]

Maybe something like:

"A Hail Mary throw at the end of the game doesn't usually end up with a completed pass. Some poor receiver usually just winds up on their knees in the mud in the end zone..."

Just to put it in language they might understand...

M.

That's a decent metaphor. The only problem is that a football game is a discrete event, so there's no real cost to trying to throw the pass even if it is very unlikely to be successful. The players don't have other things they could be spending that 6 seconds doing, so they might as well give it a shot. A gambling/math metaphor about expected value captures the situation more accurately, but it is far more confusing than Mamselle's so much less useful.