Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[kaysixteen]

Some of this is the general diffs between how today's Gen Z kids were raised by parents and indulged (at parents' insistence, more or less, in hs), but methinks some of this is the result of the previous two years of pandemic schooling policies, which were very difficult in k12.

[apl68]

From much that I've seen and heard, educational standards in K-12 have slipped disastrously due to two years of pandemic-related disruptions.  There are a lot of students who've pretty much been waved through to get them passed through the system.  Schools tried hard to provide distance education on the fly after schools were locked down and locked out, but in so many cases it just wasn't possible to make it work.

[Anon1787]

From much that I've seen and heard, educational standards in K-12 have slipped disastrously due to two years of pandemic-related disruptions.  There are a lot of students who've pretty much been waved through to get them passed through the system.  Schools tried hard to provide distance education on the fly after schools were locked down and locked out, but in so many cases it just wasn't possible to make it work.

Another recent news article in that genre:
https://news.yahoo.com/didnt-really-learn-anything-covid-055456220.html?.tsrc=374

[kaysixteen]

One might have thought we would, as a nation, have realized this by now, but given the mass aversion to taxes and spending on the part of one of our parties (which also is increasingly hostile to education), and the fact that large numbers of voters in the other party either use private schools or elite public schools in very wealthy suburb areas, it is not that hard to see why we did not-- we have to be willing to allocate enormous resources now to efforts at mass ameiioration of those pandemic educational deficits, esp amongst poorer and non-white kids.

[marshwiggle]

One might have thought we would, as a nation, have realized this by now, but given the mass aversion to taxes and spending on the part of one of our parties (which also is increasingly hostile to education), and the fact that large numbers of voters in the other party either use private schools or elite public schools in very wealthy suburb areas, it is not that hard to see why we did not-- we have to be willing to allocate enormous resources now to efforts at mass ameiioration of those pandemic educational deficits, esp amongst poorer and non-white kids.

How many Republican lawmakers don't have a post-secondary education? And if most of their supporters are against education, why would they vote for representatives with more of it?  My impression is that much opposition isn't to education per se, but rather to the ever-expanding emphasis of social engineering under the guise of "education". I'd love to see an experiment where people were offered a school choice which avoided all kinds of ideological instruction for kids, which had strong academic standards and required good conduct of students, but without all of the political baggage. I think getting support for it from the supposedly "anti-education" people would be easy.

[apl68]

I wonder how the experiences of students in nations around the world compare to each other?  I've heard lots about the problems of U.S. students due to COVID disruptions, but nothing about how students elsewhere have fared.

[mamselle]

@ marshwiggle: You're saying that they're asking for a hermenutic-free presentation of history, sociology, and civics.

     Theoretically and practically, that's impossible. What is omitted just reflects a different hermeneutic, not a purified one.

@ apl68: For some, their structures were already fairly stiffly in place (I'm thinking France, Germany, the UK, other upper-middle-class Euro-zone places). They might not have had all the computer options we have, but they have had a good basic educational structure all along so that even if things were left out, many (not all) would have the grounding from which either to learn on their own, or to catch up later. Some may have resisted, but the educational work ethic in many of the places I've seen is pretty strong, so I'm guessing they did OK.

For others, at the very lowest levels of socio-economic/class status, they might have had enough home-based teaching structures to do some work, and some local/regional resources from which to advance to a certain degree, but since many of those places only have limited electricity supplies and zero-to-few internet/cloud resources, they'd be dependent on whatever learning materials were already there: often very old books (which aren't always that bad) and siblings' notebooks, etc.

However, for that group, just surviving might have been the mandated activity, since if Covid hit, their access to healthcare was more limited, family resources were more threatened, and farming and basic food production had to take priority.

I'm picturing one place I worked where the grant one of the profs got was to follow up on a site where 30 computers had been delivered to a newly built adobe school in a tropical rainforest zone.

The previous grant recipient had signed off on their part of the award with a beautiful picture of kids sitting at their desktops with the new machines all set up and ready to go.

The part the picture didn't show was that all the connecters were dangling on the ground because no-one had checked to see if the place had electricity--they didn't--or wifi coverage--nope to that, too.

Our team's job was to go back in and figure out what to do instead...they were still debating whether to pick up the machines and sell them back and use the funds for books and a chalkboard, or to try to get power lines out to the remote area where the school was.

My assignment ended about then, so I never did learn what they did.   

M.

[marshwiggle]

@ marshwiggle: You're saying that they're asking for a hermenutic-free presentation of history, sociology, and civics.

     Theoretically and practically, that's impossible. What is omitted just reflects a different hermeneutic, not a purified one.

Subjects like mathematics don't really involve any sort of hermaneutics. Attempts to impose all kinds of idiological baggage onto those are unnecessary and generate understandable hostility.
However, even for subjects such as those mentioned above, it is entirely possible, (and traditionally was considered preferable), to discuss them in a hermaneutically open-ended manner. My daughter said she had a great history prof in university, but who never revealed his own personal leanings on things. In theology, one can discuss the Eucharist, and present the different positions about whether the elements are symbolic, or whether they actually become the body and blood of Christ, without trying to push one or the other on students.

It's only recently that some educators have started to see "activism" as essential to what they do. Unfortunately, this directly undermines development of students' own critical thinking skills since on any issue they are primed to recognize the "right answer", rather than trying to see it from multiple perspectives.

[mamselle]

All things (including math examples) involve hermeneutics.

If you're saying they don't, it's only because you haven't examined your own to know what they are and how to recognize them.

M.

[marshwiggle]

All things (including math examples) involve hermeneutics.

If you're saying they don't, it's only because you haven't examined your own to know what they are and how to recognize them.

M.

Here's an interesting example:

STU course to explore 'defunding the police'

Sulaimon Giwa has strong opinions on modern day policing from years of lived and academic experience.

He doesn't however, have a specific answer for what it means to defund the police.

"It's a question I've been trying to grapple with," he said. "Are we actually using the correct language to define and have meaningful conversations around this issue of police brutality and this issue of the police budget?"

Giwa's life and academic experience have formed his opinions on policing, but he will not be imposing a particular perspective on students, he said. Rather, he'll be facilitating critical conversations.

"It's really difficult to come into this space in a neutral sense, because I visualize as a Black, gay man, and these are realities for me as well as you on a day-to-day basis," he said.

"But I think it's really, really important that I'm not coming into that space with my own values and beliefs and having students take those positions necessarily."

This is what used to be considered the goal for academics, rather than an aberation.
(He admits he has a perspective, but he wants to avoid trying to impose it on students.)

[the_geneticist]

Dear students,
What part of "in-class oral presentation" makes it sound like physically being in class and talking is somehow optional?  Yes, you also have to turn in your slides.  But that is not sufficient to count as, you know, actually presenting about your research project.  Turning in your slides is only 5 points.  The presentation is scored out of 50 points. 

And that is why the presentation guidelines include: "All team members need to present about their individual [basket]", "You need to talk through the information on your slides. It is NOT acceptable to simple show the slides and assume your audience will read them.", etc.

How does showing up and talking sound optional?!?

Bang! Bang! Bang!

[mythbuster]

Just spent my morning dealing with the student who missed the first week's lab due to transportation issues. Said student claims she did not realize that lab was in person (?!) will not have transportation to campus for over a month. Clue flagging the academic advisors and Dean of students.

This is the 4th student I've dealt with this week who could not decipher their course schedule!

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Just spent my morning dealing with the student who missed the first week's lab due to transportation issues. Said student claims she did not realize that lab was in person (?!) will not have transportation to campus for over a month. Clue flagging the academic advisors and Dean of students.

This is the 4th student I've dealt with this week who could not decipher their course schedule!

I feel your pain. I had TWO students on the first day of class who could not read their schedules. One of them wasn't sure what days class met. Um, don't you guys sign up for classes knowing what days they meet?

[mamselle]

Thinking in a matrix of dates, days, and hours requires getting past the hypothetical-deductive stage of development (c. 8-12 years old)...one might have to induce that passage with a review of how to hold two things in mind at the same time, while working to compare them.

This could be valuable overall, since the same skills are required in the analysis of lab results, among other things....when only linear thinking is taught, emphasized, reinforced, or encouraged, it's more of a struggle to do that.

M.

[the_geneticist]

Just spent my morning dealing with the student who missed the first week's lab due to transportation issues. Said student claims she did not realize that lab was in person (?!) will not have transportation to campus for over a month. Clue flagging the academic advisors and Dean of students.

This is the 4th student I've dealt with this week who could not decipher their course schedule!

Wow.  The lack of a Zoom link or online materials didn't clue them in either?  Makes you wonder if they attended any of their classes.  Our registration site has added a course modality column that says in-person or online.  The exact type of online isn't specified (synchronous, asynchronous, self-paced, etc.), but at least the students know if they need to physically be in a particular room.