Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[Puget]

Student with a 50% in the class met with me today. Wants to talk about the assignment they are supposed to have been working on all semester (LOTS of reminders) that was originally due today but I extended to Monday. Starts out by saying he isn't sure what to do. I ask what part of the instructions isn't clear to him? Oh, he hasn't read the instructions yet. BANG BANG BANG.

I feel a bit bad because this student has some learning disabilities and accommodations, but he has literally done nothing to help himself all semester and is in complete denial about how badly he is doing.

[poiuy]

So sorry about that, Puget.  I have had this happen a couple of times. I feel bad for students with learning challenges, but I think regular classroom accommodations are not enough to fill the gap. 
The student likely has deficits in executive functioning, making it very difficult for them to make a plan and carry it out. This should not be on you to address.

Does your University have a student support office?  The student should have been receiving their help all along, but at least you can connect them now. It will be too late for this semester but may help them in the future.

Of course, they might be an entitled grub on top of that.

I would reply to them with a cc to their advisor, (a) reminding them that the Instructions had been available all through the semester, (b) they should read the Instructions before meeting you or asking for help, and you can clarify only specific points that are not clear to them post-reading the Instructions.

I am sure they will flake out, then you can email them back, cc the advisor and the student support office, and hopefully someone will follow up with the student.  You can email the advisor and student support separately and describe the student's accommodations and their lack of engagement through the semester, and that something is clearly not working.

If they do come and meet you, you can point out what they need to do to turn in the assignment, and not extend the deadline further because it's already been extended.  After that just record their grade.

But that will be all that you can realistically do at this point. At least there will be an email trail that someone tried to help them. For some students, it takes a few iterations to get through college.

[Puget]

So sorry about that, Puget.  I have had this happen a couple of times. I feel bad for students with learning challenges, but I think regular classroom accommodations are not enough to fill the gap. 
The student likely has deficits in executive functioning, making it very difficult for them to make a plan and carry it out. This should not be on you to address.

Does your University have a student support office?  The student should have been receiving their help all along, but at least you can connect them now. It will be too late for this semester but may help them in the future.

Of course, they might be an entitled grub on top of that.

I would reply to them with a cc to their advisor, (a) reminding them that the Instructions had been available all through the semester, (b) they should read the Instructions before meeting you or asking for help, and you can clarify only specific points that are not clear to them post-reading the Instructions.

I am sure they will flake out, then you can email them back, cc the advisor and the student support office, and hopefully someone will follow up with the student.  You can email the advisor and student support separately and describe the student's accommodations and their lack of engagement through the semester, and that something is clearly not working.

If they do come and meet you, you can point out what they need to do to turn in the assignment, and not extend the deadline further because it's already been extended.  After that just record their grade.

But that will be all that you can realistically do at this point. At least there will be an email trail that someone tried to help them. For some students, it takes a few iterations to get through college.

Oh, believe me, student is connected to support services and I've done all that and more (we even met with the student's father with the students consent/request -- dad is a prof in another department here, and totally understanding about the limits of what accommodations can do). Student support services person (who is lovely and extremely reasonable) is exploring with the advising office whether a late drop with medical under-load may still be possible. We discussed that earlier but student did not want to take that path at the time. Ultimately college (at least this college) may just not be for him, sadly.

(My area of research happens to be executive function and how it is linked to various disorders, and this is also not my first rodeo, so I'm quite versed in all this--not trying to be snarky-- no way you would have known that. But it was just a head bang, not something I needed advice on).

[the_geneticist]

Glad that the dad is supportive.  Not that you require/need their support, but that's worlds better than fending off furious parents.

I have a student that NEVER attended lab demanding to know how they failed the class when it also has a lecture.  If 30% of your grade is from lab, it's not mathematically possible to pass the class if you earn 0 points in lab. 

[fishbrains]

I have a student that NEVER attended lab demanding to know how they failed the class when it also has a lecture.  If 30% of your grade is from lab, it's not mathematically possible to pass the class if you earn 0 points in lab.

Ugh. It's nearly impossible to explain to students who can't do math why they failed a course. And the lost looks on their faces can be heart-wrenching at times . . . and infuriating at times. Sometimes at the same time. Ugh.

[the_geneticist]

I have a student that NEVER attended lab demanding to know how they failed the class when it also has a lecture.  If 30% of your grade is from lab, it's not mathematically possible to pass the class if you earn 0 points in lab.

Ugh. It's nearly impossible to explain to students who can't do math why they failed a course. And the lost looks on their faces can be heart-wrenching at times . . . and infuriating at times. Sometimes at the same time. Ugh.

This one was entitled.  The lab was "too much time" so it must be optional. The student thought this was a negotiation.

"What can I do for you to pass me?"

I told Stu the course will be offered again in Spring.

[fishbrains]

I have a student that NEVER attended lab demanding to know how they failed the class when it also has a lecture.  If 30% of your grade is from lab, it's not mathematically possible to pass the class if you earn 0 points in lab.

Ugh. It's nearly impossible to explain to students who can't do math why they failed a course. And the lost looks on their faces can be heart-wrenching at times . . . and infuriating at times. Sometimes at the same time. Ugh.

This one was entitled.  The lab was "too much time" so it must be optional. The student thought this was a negotiation.

"What can I do for you to pass me?"

I told Stu the course will be offered again in Spring.

Double ugh. Time traveling is just not a service we can offer any more.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

I have a student that NEVER attended lab demanding to know how they failed the class when it also has a lecture.  If 30% of your grade is from lab, it's not mathematically possible to pass the class if you earn 0 points in lab.

Ugh. It's nearly impossible to explain to students who can't do math why they failed a course. And the lost looks on their faces can be heart-wrenching at times . . . and infuriating at times. Sometimes at the same time. Ugh.

This one was entitled.  The lab was "too much time" so it must be optional. The student thought this was a negotiation.

"What can I do for you to pass me?"

I told Stu the course will be offered again in Spring.

One of my problem students (who currently has less than a 30% in the class) has been asking me this all semester. Fantasy response: Maybe if you turned in the work you were supposed to do in the first place, then you wouldn't be asking me for 'extra credit' work.

[RatGuy]

As students settle in to take the final exam today, one student (whose essay grade finally raised her above failing) said "hey Mr Rat, you better not fuck me over with this exam, now that I'm passing."

Other students were shocked but I said "how you perform on this exam is up to you." I know these kids are stressed right now but dang really?

[Puget]

As students settle in to take the final exam today, one student (whose essay grade finally raised her above failing) said "hey Mr Rat, you better not fuck me over with this exam, now that I'm passing."

Other students were shocked but I said "how you perform on this exam is up to you." I know these kids are stressed right now but dang really?

Wow, I'd be reporting that to student conduct.

[RatGuy]

As students settle in to take the final exam today, one student (whose essay grade finally raised her above failing) said "hey Mr Rat, you better not fuck me over with this exam, now that I'm passing."

Other students were shocked but I said "how you perform on this exam is up to you." I know these kids are stressed right now but dang really?

Wow, I'd be reporting that to student conduct.

Yeah, I mentioned it to the chair afterwards, in case there's an escalation. But our student conduct procedure is pretty toothless, unless its physical or sexual assault.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

As students settle in to take the final exam today, one student (whose essay grade finally raised her above failing) said "hey Mr Rat, you better not fuck me over with this exam, now that I'm passing."

Other students were shocked but I said "how you perform on this exam is up to you." I know these kids are stressed right now but dang really?

Wow, I'd be reporting that to student conduct.

Yeah, I mentioned it to the chair afterwards, in case there's an escalation. But our student conduct procedure is pretty toothless, unless its physical or sexual assault.

Agreed. Wow!

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

One of my problem students, who isn't passing and doesn't listen to me when I say things like 'You need to come to lab and turn in work', wanted to know if stu should come to the final on Wednesday.

Um, yes? Well, it's up to you if you want to be there. Why did this student ask me this? This is the student who does not hear me when I say the final exam is in PERSON. Stu STILL thinks it's online. Banging my damn head.

And in the online classes: They have a final exam due tonight. Guess how many of them took it?- about 30%. They are waiting until the ultimate last minute to do this which I find very annoying because I know that if they have issues, then they will complain to me and I'll have to be the 'bad guy' and say, 'Well, there are no make ups.' I'd like to say a lot worse, but I'm trying to be good. ;)

[the_geneticist]

I got an email from a student saying they "just saw my email about not taking the final" and wondering if it's too late to do anything.

I didn't email Stu about not taking the Final last week (two other students, yes.  This student, no).
In fact, Stu isn't even in my class.
Stu isn't in any of the other [Intro to Baskets] classes either.

Stu is apparently just NOW realizing they didn't take the final in their [Intro to Baskets] in SPRING 2022.

Apparently "email me ASAP" = about six or so months later. 

Yeah, it's too late to do anything now.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

I got an email from a student saying they "just saw my email about not taking the final" and wondering if it's too late to do anything.

I didn't email Stu about not taking the Final last week (two other students, yes.  This student, no).
In fact, Stu isn't even in my class.
Stu isn't in any of the other [Intro to Baskets] classes either.

Stu is apparently just NOW realizing they didn't take the final in their [Intro to Baskets] in SPRING 2022.

Apparently "email me ASAP" = about six or so months later. 

Yeah, it's too late to do anything now.

Now, that's impressive... Dang!