Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[Caracal]

I just got an email from a student who was confused about whether she passed or not.

My policy is you have to pass the final to pass the course, but that is a necessary, not a sufficient condition.

So, with her stellar 65% on the final, she ended up with a  27% in the course, but wants to know if she passed.

She COULD NOT HAVE PASSED even with a 100%.

Gotta' love it. How can you get in to college and not understand basic Math (I'm talkin' addition, subtraction, multiplication and division)? Students should be able to calculate their grades. My final grade calculation is purely additive (minus lowest test, etc.) and students STILL cannot figure it out. Geez!

True! /rant: Sadly I have graduate medical professional school students who cannot figure out how to average their grades and apply simple rules involving addition. They are mystified that in my class the LMS is not able to do it for them... Soon to be YOUR medical professional... ;) Isn't BASIC algebra a generic college requirement? Never mind that these particular students mostly took calculus... /rant_off

Scary.

I have taught one of those first-year Intro to College type classes and devoted an entire class period to calculating grades. I tried to have them work through different weighted percentage and point accumulation scenarios, with hypothetical grades in each category. I'm at a reasonably selective institution.
About 40% of the class could do these. The rest threw up their hands; "I can't do math." But so many of them took algebra and Calc in high school (as bio-nonymous notes)? Many of them also say that they've had training in Excel. These would be very basic Excel formulas.

Yeah, this is just one of those mystifying things. Explanations I've come up with over the years
1. This is one of those things where we realize that we teach a lot of students who are very different than we were as undergrads. There reason I would calculate my grade is because I was usually trying to figure out how low a score I could get on the last exam or paper and still get an A. I wasn't doing this because I was trying to calibrate my effort, I just got anxious about these things at the end of the semester. It was pretty pointless, I was usually going to do well and get an A. (Weirdly, I didn't really do this with the classes where I might not get a good grade.) I think this is a pretty common sort of thing with people who end up becoming academics. Most of our students are better adjusted than this.

2. However, it used to be that if you really wanted to know exactly where you stood in a class this was what you had to do. Now, students have gone through high school and college with CMSs and so they take it as a given that they should always know exactly what their grade is. If that feature didn't exist, most of them would just settle for a vague idea of what their grade is. When you expect something to work in one way, it can be really frustrating if it doesn't, so they just get irritated about the idea that they'd have to calculate their grade.

3. It's one thing to have learned how to do something and another to actually remember and be able to apply it. I took five years of Spanish and I can't really conjugate a regular verb. I've retained more math, but that's probably because I was better at it than I was at languages.

[marshwiggle]

2. However, it used to be that if you really wanted to know exactly where you stood in a class this was what you had to do. Now, students have gone through high school and college with CMSs and so they take it as a given that they should always know exactly what their grade is. If that feature didn't exist, most of them would just settle for a vague idea of what their grade is. When you expect something to work in one way, it can be really frustrating if it doesn't, so they just get irritated about the idea that they'd have to calculate their grade.

Might it also be a consequence of "grading on a curve", "extra credit", and so on so that it's rarely the case that a single calculation on raw grades gives everyones' final grades?
The more exceptions are considered, the more understandable that students won't consider a calculation meaningful.

[the_geneticist]

I'm amazed at the students who put tons of time into assignments worth 5% of their grade and totally blow off the one worth 20%, after which they're baffled by the effect on their course grade.

Yep.
I'm scoring presentations and students are losing points due to just not doing parts of it.  But they will beg to be allowed to redo assignments that were graded weeks ago.  Also no.

[statsgeek]

I think I'm going to have to redesign my online class yet again.  It's a lower-level class that's optional for our majors but required for several other programs, so I get more than the usual number of students just checking off the requirement.  I had to redo it this year to make it more "cheat-proof" (less reliance on exams).  Now it's too "you get out of it what you put in" and about 1/3 of the class put in the bare minimum.  The final reflection assignment that's usually a lot of fun to grade was a drag. 

[FishProf]

Announcement posted on 9Dec22:

"At the end of the day today, all the semester work will be NO LONGER ACCESSIBLE.
Tomorrow morning, the Final Exam will become available, until the EotD on 21Dec22."

Announcement Posted on 16Dec22:
"GRADES ARE POSTED BUT NOT SUBMITTED
Please review your grades as posted, AFTER you have taken the final.
Please email me if you see an ERROR, but not if you are just unhappy.  I will submit the grades on 22Dec22."

Student email today at 10am:
"Professor,
I totally screwed up. I thought the final was due by the end of the day on the 22nd. Please consider giving me another chance to do it. I am so sorry. I really need to pass this class."

How do you screw that up?!  Oh yeah, by waiting until the last day to do the work...

[FishProf]

The Same Old story:

Our continuing ed department, in its infinitesimal wisdom, decided that a 9d wintersession was too short, so they made some changes.

1) All classes offered had to be online
2) The semester starts 27Dec22, not 2Jan23, and now ends on 16Jan23.

Consequences:
1) We don't offer any lab courses now, b/c our department decided online labs (only) were insufficient to meet the  SLOs for the courses.  That cost the school about $100k in lost revenue compared to previous years.
2a) The last day of the wintersession is on MLKJr day.  So, the final exams are to be given on a day when the School is closed (State and Federal Holiday at a State School).
2b) Students have 18d to do a semester of work, but if they don't bother to check email until after the New Year (not unreasonable by most standards), they will have lost 1/3 of their time for doing the Non-Final Exam portion of the course.  The 2nd is also AFTER the Add/Drop deadline, so students can't get in or out of the course if they follow the previous schedules.
2c) There haven't been any announcements of these new changes in any venue or at a time that would reach the casually observant.  You have to know to look and students generally don't know.  Often, neither do faculty.
2d) In previous years, about 40-45% of Wintersession enrollments happen AFTER the class starts, and 20% are on the ADD deadline.  That will pass unnoticed this year, and continuing ed will lose more $$.  Anecdotal data, but roughly 2/3 of my intersession classes each year are our own students, often late enrollees.  This year, it is 20%.

I posted the syllabus, its quiz, and everything else for the course yesterday morning.  27 hours later, just 2 students have taken the syllabus quiz.  This does not bode well.



 

[the_geneticist]

The Same Old story:

Our continuing ed department, in its infinitesimal wisdom, decided that a 9d wintersession was too short, so they made some changes.

1) All classes offered had to be online
2) The semester starts 27Dec22, not 2Jan23, and now ends on 16Jan23.

Consequences:
1) We don't offer any lab courses now, b/c our department decided online labs (only) were insufficient to meet the  SLOs for the courses.  That cost the school about $100k in lost revenue compared to previous years.
2a) The last day of the wintersession is on MLKJr day.  So, the final exams are to be given on a day when the School is closed (State and Federal Holiday at a State School).
2b) Students have 18d to do a semester of work, but if they don't bother to check email until after the New Year (not unreasonable by most standards), they will have lost 1/3 of their time for doing the Non-Final Exam portion of the course.  The 2nd is also AFTER the Add/Drop deadline, so students can't get in or out of the course if they follow the previous schedules.
2c) There haven't been any announcements of these new changes in any venue or at a time that would reach the casually observant.  You have to know to look and students generally don't know.  Often, neither do faculty.
2d) In previous years, about 40-45% of Wintersession enrollments happen AFTER the class starts, and 20% are on the ADD deadline.  That will pass unnoticed this year, and continuing ed will lose more $$.  Anecdotal data, but roughly 2/3 of my intersession classes each year are our own students, often late enrollees.  This year, it is 20%.

I posted the syllabus, its quiz, and everything else for the course yesterday morning.  27 hours later, just 2 students have taken the syllabus quiz.  This does not bode well.

Doesn't bode well indeed.  It would be nice if the folks who approved those changes have to teach at least one of the classes.  Just to see what a logistics nightmare they created.

I can see the push for online: "Money from students not on campus! Flexible! More students = more money!"

And I bet the faculty are relieved to stand firm on no entirely online labs.  But "must be online" means no field courses, travel classes or other money makers.

The weird start/end dates, and making the changes without telling folks is a recipe for absolute disaster.

[fishbrains]

The Same Old story:

Our continuing ed department, in its infinitesimal wisdom, decided that a 9d wintersession was too short, so they made some changes.

1) All classes offered had to be online
2) The semester starts 27Dec22, not 2Jan23, and now ends on 16Jan23.

Consequences:
1) We don't offer any lab courses now, b/c our department decided online labs (only) were insufficient to meet the  SLOs for the courses.  That cost the school about $100k in lost revenue compared to previous years.
2a) The last day of the wintersession is on MLKJr day.  So, the final exams are to be given on a day when the School is closed (State and Federal Holiday at a State School).
2b) Students have 18d to do a semester of work, but if they don't bother to check email until after the New Year (not unreasonable by most standards), they will have lost 1/3 of their time for doing the Non-Final Exam portion of the course.  The 2nd is also AFTER the Add/Drop deadline, so students can't get in or out of the course if they follow the previous schedules.
2c) There haven't been any announcements of these new changes in any venue or at a time that would reach the casually observant.  You have to know to look and students generally don't know.  Often, neither do faculty.
2d) In previous years, about 40-45% of Wintersession enrollments happen AFTER the class starts, and 20% are on the ADD deadline.  That will pass unnoticed this year, and continuing ed will lose more $$.  Anecdotal data, but roughly 2/3 of my intersession classes each year are our own students, often late enrollees.  This year, it is 20%.

I posted the syllabus, its quiz, and everything else for the course yesterday morning.  27 hours later, just 2 students have taken the syllabus quiz.  This does not bode well.

Doesn't bode well indeed.  It would be nice if the folks who approved those changes have to teach at least one of the classes.  Just to see what a logistics nightmare they created.

I can see the push for online: "Money from students not on campus! Flexible! More students = more money!"

And I bet the faculty are relieved to stand firm on no entirely online labs.  But "must be online" means no field courses, travel classes or other money makers.

The weird start/end dates, and making the changes without telling folks is a recipe for absolute disaster.

Been there, done that. I have no message of hope.

But like a burrito filled with mystery meat, this too shall pass.

[FishProf]

I can see the push for online: "Money from students not on campus! Flexible! More students = more money!"

And I bet the faculty are relieved to stand firm on no entirely online labs.  But "must be online" means no field courses, travel classes or other money makers.

The weird start/end dates, and making the changes without telling folks is a recipe for absolute disaster.

I have a meeting with the Continuing Ed dean and my dean on Tuesday about this problem.  I didn't ask for it, I didn't even complain about it, but they want my input.  Apparently, they want to know why the $40k in revenue I usually generate in intersession is now only $4k.

I am sharpening my beak and claws in readiness!

[Parasaurolophus]

How long are your normal inter-session sessions?

(I think ours are normally just 14 days, but then, we also don't decide on them at the last minute--usually two semesters ahead of time!)

[FishProf]

They used to be 9d not counting weekends.

Now they are 14d, not counting weekends.  Although the last day is MLKJr day, so technically 15, but also not, because that is a holiday.  Technically, so is the 2nd (NYD observed).

I have always thought they were too short, so I am not opposed to the attempt to lengthen them, but it has been so ham-handed this year.

[Liquidambar]

From a class of 30, I have one paper that's partially plagiarized and another that shows understanding at the level of my own--from a C student.  I can't find the latter online so suspect it was purchased.

Why did I assign these stupid papers?  Oh yeah, it was so my students could see how our class topics are being used in the scientific literature.  Maybe next time we'll stick to boring in-class exams.  Sigh...

[Thursday's_Child]

From a class of 30, I have one paper that's partially plagiarized and another that shows understanding at the level of my own--from a C student.  I can't find the latter online so suspect it was purchased.

Why did I assign these stupid papers?  Oh yeah, it was so my students could see how our class topics are being used in the scientific literature.  Maybe next time we'll stick to boring in-class exams.  Sigh...

Time to have a professional-level discussion of all the myriad details and nuances of the topic with the C student!

Also, if the other 28 are reasonable, it very probably was a worthwhile exercise.

[Liquidambar]

From a class of 30, I have one paper that's partially plagiarized and another that shows understanding at the level of my own--from a C student.  I can't find the latter online so suspect it was purchased.

Why did I assign these stupid papers?  Oh yeah, it was so my students could see how our class topics are being used in the scientific literature.  Maybe next time we'll stick to boring in-class exams.  Sigh...

Time to have a professional-level discussion of all the myriad details and nuances of the topic with the C student!

Also, if the other 28 are reasonable, it very probably was a worthwhile exercise.

If the semester weren't over, I'd try to have that talk with the C student.  As is, I probably won't see them again.  (At least I hope not.  They're not registered for my spring class, thank goodness.)

Thanks for encouraging me to think about the other 28 students.  You're right--it was a worthwhile exercise for most of them.

[the_geneticist]

We are playing the quarterly game of "another graduate student declined their teaching contract, better find you a replacement".
My level of concern has gone from:
Meh, this happens every quarter --> Well, at least we have a few weeks --> It's OK, classes don't start until next week --> maybe I can put experienced TAs in the Monday labs and redo the schedule later if needed?