Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[ciao_yall]

I anticipate a genuine sh*tshow before this is over, and I put as much in writing to my chair yesterday.  This is not likely to end well.  Oh, and two of these registered the Monday before class began; two were registered for the original 16-week section; and the others all registered online between Thursday noon and Saturday midnight.

I haven't ever taught at a CC, but what's the concern? It sounds like a bunch of these students are likely to just fail themselves by either vanishing or failing to turn anything in. Those students almost never complain in my classes. What's to complain about? As for the others, well, you can do a lot of really intensive writing work in class...and you can really spend a lot of time on their work. Some of them might actually get better at writing...

I agree in theory: it's less for me to grade when they drop, and they don't usually have the gumption to complain.  My concern is, Admin immediately takes the position that if even one student drops, it's automatically the fault of the faculty member:  we haven't done enough to make sure the student will succeed, up to and including passing those who haven't earned a passing grade.  If they D/F/W because they never show up to class, never turn in an assignment, are functionally illiterate, or for any other reason, all that matters to Admin is that the faculty member has failed.  I certainly have the documentation to prove otherwise, if/when I get called on the carpet for this group, but I don't relish the accusations or having to defend myself.

In this particular group, after a week with them, and after reading their diagnostics and first discussion board, I'm seriously thinking that if I have ONE left by May 1, it's going to be a miracle. Their lack of engagement is far surpassed by the poor quality of their basic skills.

Fishbrains, it's good to know I'm not the only one who's had a mess like this. I'll do my usual routine with them, and if they can't/won't do their part, it will be on them. The pay's the same either way, at this point, which is motivation enough.

Adding to this, having taught at a CC - I like to say that CCs are not just a job, they are an adventure. I love the students, the diversity, the feeling of really making a difference in a student's life as opposed to teaching a well-resourced kid whose parents give them everything and, let's face it, they will graduate no matter what.

Students come to CC with their own young families, jobs, under-resourced educations, and so on. So I know for myself I feel an extra sense of duty in helping them when they are in my classroom because education is their, and their families', tickets to economic and political stability and power. (Don't talk to me about manual labor jobs right now.)

So yes, students drop out because of reasons that have nothing to do with faculty. They couldn't quite balance their job and school, and they had to make hay while the sun shines so they chose their job. Their children needed more attention. Their elderly relatives needed help and theirs is not a culture where you put family in a nursing home. Their high school was under-resourced and under-funded and they graduated without the math and language skills expected, so they are struggling and just don't have the time or emotional energy to put into their classwork.

Admin (and the state) loves to fund *innovation* but hates to fund boring stuff like... smaller classes. Counselors. Tutors. Basic needs centers so students can get food, housing, child care and elder care. Our state has money coming out of its ears for "equity" but can't use it on the things struggling students really need because it's not *innovative.*

[ciao_yall]

I am teaching an online class I have taught a number of times before, including during the pandemic. It's about the Bible, and so it typically attracts motivated students who are, obviously, interested in the Bible. But this semester I am just tearing my hair out. For the first time so many students are just relying on their background vague familiarity with certain parts of the Bible to do the assignments.

For instance, I may instruct, "Read the chapter by Smith about how Passover was celebrated at the time of Jesus. How does this enrich your understanding of the Last Supper?"

And they will write, "The Last Supper was a very important meal. It was the last supper that Jesus had. He was with his friends the disciples. It is good to eat food with friends. This shows that we should all share food with each other for community."

Read. the. chapter. Apply. the. chapter.

Is the semester over yet?

I ran into this type of thing in my own classes until I started giving them the "4 questions" model based on Kohl's Experiential Learning.

1) Describe the example (in this case, the Last Supper).
2) Tie it to a theory from the class reading (Smith).
3) What do you agree with in terms of Smith? Disagree? Why?
4) How has this changed your thinking about the Last Supper?

They had to thoroughly answer all 4 questions to get full credit.

[Hegemony]

Ciao, that sounds like a useful method. The mind-boggling aspect for me is that students in previous years (even last year) all answered the question satisfactorily. And the actual question is even easier than this fake one I made up.  It's just this year's group of students who are trying to get by with minimal effort. That's not even to mention the students I mentioned in the other thread, who are having full-blown crises.

There are also very easy discussion points, and this week 13 of the 40 students never even went over to the discussion board and wrote the most minimal thing. Although I give points for anything semi-coherent in the discussion, if they miss all the discussion points, they will probably not have enough points to pass the class. I always have a couple of stragglers, but 13 is a new phenomenon. I even message and email all the missing students, even though we are a big faceless university where people are usually left to sink or swim. When I send them messages, I either get "Oh yeah, I forgot," or silence. But the "Oh yeah, I forgot" people miss the subsequent weeks too. (And get emailed again. To no avail.)

[ciao_yall]

Ciao, that sounds like a useful method. The mind-boggling aspect for me is that students in previous years (even last year) all answered the question satisfactorily. And the actual question is even easier than this fake one I made up.  It's just this year's group of students who are trying to get by with minimal effort. That's not even to mention the students I mentioned in the other thread, who are having full-blown crises.

There are also very easy discussion points, and this week 13 of the 40 students never even went over to the discussion board and wrote the most minimal thing. Although I give points for anything semi-coherent in the discussion, if they miss all the discussion points, they will probably not have enough points to pass the class. I always have a couple of stragglers, but 13 is a new phenomenon. I even message and email all the missing students, even though we are a big faceless university where people are usually left to sink or swim. When I send them messages, I either get "Oh yeah, I forgot," or silence. But the "Oh yeah, I forgot" people miss the subsequent weeks too. (And get emailed again. To no avail.)

Are you teaching online? I found it was really hard to "acculturate" students when teaching online to my expectations. They would see substandard work from their peers on the discussion boards and then wonder why they lost points. Yeah, you all lost points. Try again. Answer the 4 questions.

For responses, I would also give them parameters as to what counted as an acceptable response.

Somehow in person, because they discussed their homework in class, they seemed to more quickly engage in what was needed and, when hearing their classmates discuss them, would be more thoughtful and creative to "keep up" in future assignments. Even if they were getting 10/10.

[RatGuy]

Am I wrong for requesting that students submit hard copies of their homework? Handwritten or typed, doesn't matter -- I just don't want you emailing it to me. Of the students who completed today's assignment, about  third said " the printer at my apartment / greek housing / dorm / library / mom's house wasn't working, can I just email you?"

[sinenomine]

Am I wrong for requesting that students submit hard copies of their homework? Handwritten or typed, doesn't matter -- I just don't want you emailing it to me. Of the students who completed today's assignment, about  third said " the printer at my apartment / greek housing / dorm / library / mom's house wasn't working, can I just email you?"

I stopped asking for hard copies of assignments pre-Covid, when my school started charging students for printing; it became inequitable. The grading function on our LMS makes grading efficient, and assignments and my comments never get lost.

[RatGuy]

Am I wrong for requesting that students submit hard copies of their homework? Handwritten or typed, doesn't matter -- I just don't want you emailing it to me. Of the students who completed today's assignment, about  third said " the printer at my apartment / greek housing / dorm / library / mom's house wasn't working, can I just email you?"

I stopped asking for hard copies of assignments pre-Covid, when my school started charging students for printing; it became inequitable. The grading function on our LMS makes grading efficient, and assignments and my comments never get lost.

Point taken, but I don't require them to print out the sheets themselves. I will distribute a worksheet in class, and I'll upload the word document to Blackboard. That way, students who would rather not handwrite their answers, or those who lose the assignment, or those who weren't in class can use the online document to complete the assignment. Yet even when the instructions indicate that the assignment is due in class and that we'll be using them as part of our class exercise, I'm seeing more who simply show up and say "oh I couldn't print it" when indeed they could have just filled it in by hand.

[the_geneticist]

Am I wrong for requesting that students submit hard copies of their homework? Handwritten or typed, doesn't matter -- I just don't want you emailing it to me. Of the students who completed today's assignment, about  third said " the printer at my apartment / greek housing / dorm / library / mom's house wasn't working, can I just email you?"

I stopped asking for hard copies of assignments pre-Covid, when my school started charging students for printing; it became inequitable. The grading function on our LMS makes grading efficient, and assignments and my comments never get lost.

Point taken, but I don't require them to print out the sheets themselves. I will distribute a worksheet in class, and I'll upload the word document to Blackboard. That way, students who would rather not handwrite their answers, or those who lose the assignment, or those who weren't in class can use the online document to complete the assignment. Yet even when the instructions indicate that the assignment is due in class and that we'll be using them as part of our class exercise, I'm seeing more who simply show up and say "oh I couldn't print it" when indeed they could have just filled it in by hand.

You could tell them to upload the assignment so they could look at their submission online.  I'm a huge fan of Gradescope for that reason.  They can have a hard copy too, but it's their preference for what to bring to class.

[OneMoreYear]

This thesis prospectus I am reading is seriously poorly written. I am being told by the committee chair that they are going to push it through (give the student a pass at the prospectus meeting) no matter what I think. I'm not going to choose this as my hill to die on. But I'm having a seriously hard time forcing myself to slog through this since my judgement matters not.

[traductio]

Me: All right -- so, you have the midterm next week. It will take place in person, during class, and on paper.

Student (raising hand frantically): I have a question!

Me: Yes?

Student: Will the exam be online or in person?

Me: It will take place in person, during class, and on paper.

Student: So not online?

Me: That is correct, not online.

[apl68]

Sounds like the student was incredulous that the exam was actually, really-and-truly-and-honestly going to be online.  Must have been a lot of wishful thinking otherwise that it was painful to have to let go.

[Caracal]

Sounds like the student was incredulous that the exam was actually, really-and-truly-and-honestly going to be online.  Must have been a lot of wishful thinking otherwise that it was painful to have to let go.

Maybe, but I often have students who just get anxious that they could be misunderstanding something. I think it might sometimes be a result of dealing with uncaring bureaucracies where someone will say something in a confusing way and if you misunderstand it, all the consequences fall on them.

[traductio]

Sounds like the student was incredulous that the exam was actually, really-and-truly-and-honestly going to be online.  Must have been a lot of wishful thinking otherwise that it was painful to have to let go.

Maybe, but I often have students who just get anxious that they could be misunderstanding something. I think it might sometimes be a result of dealing with uncaring bureaucracies where someone will say something in a confusing way and if you misunderstand it, all the consequences fall on them.

I think that anxiety is a good explanation, for as exasperating as it can be from an instructor's perspective. The world through which my students navigate, especially in my large, bureaucracy-heavy university, is often capricious, and they know they bear the risk, not the institution.

[the_geneticist]

What part of "The TA meetings are mandatory" makes it sound like you don't need to be there?

I'm looking at you, brand-new TA, who is also behind on grading.  Trust me, you really need to come talk with me.

[marshwiggle]

What part of "The TA meetings are mandatory" makes it sound like you don't need to be there?

I'm looking at you, brand-new TA, who is also behind on grading.  Trust me, you really need to come talk with me.

I see a kindred spirit with my TA who didn't show up to the lab. When I got back to my office, I see that he'd sent an email saying he wasn't coming to the lab because he had a midterm to study for. I guess the prof must have announced that midterm a couple of hours before the lab for the next day so my TA had no other time to study........