Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[downer]

But still, it seems that schools that make the reporting and proof of cheating onerous for faculty are asking for big problems.

No they're not.  The tolerance of cheating is intentional, or at least intentional-by-default.

Unless it's enough to make it into the news, having some level of cheating *helps* a university, because having students pass courses is good for retention, which is good for enrollment, which helps the bottom line.

Only when you get to the point of having a genuine reputation of universal quality among graduates to protect does cheating become a problem.  Most universities don't have a reputation to protect.

Basically I agree. It enforces my use of that quotation about students adapted for administrations: "you can't care more about academic integrity than they do." Why should I put myself out with hours of work if the university doesn't care about it?

There is a sense that the reputation of higher ed is not only in constant dispute especially in the US with its strong anti-intellectual tendencies, but is especially in dispute now with current debates over identity politics. Young men have opted out from higher ed in large numbers, leading many schools to having larger female populations of students. Of course, there's also the problem that a bachelors degree is not a guarantee of a job for many young people. I don't know how close we are to a tipping point where people decide that a college degree is largely meaningless. It does not feel that far away to me.

[marshwiggle]

But still, it seems that schools that make the reporting and proof of cheating onerous for faculty are asking for big problems.

No they're not.  The tolerance of cheating is intentional, or at least intentional-by-default.

Unless it's enough to make it into the news, having some level of cheating *helps* a university, because having students pass courses is good for retention, which is good for enrollment, which helps the bottom line.

Only when you get to the point of having a genuine reputation of universal quality among graduates to protect does cheating become a problem.  Most universities don't have a reputation to protect.

Basically I agree. It enforces my use of that quotation about students adapted for administrations: "you can't care more about academic integrity than they do." Why should I put myself out with hours of work if the university doesn't care about it?

There's another issue which is analogous to the situation in the courts. In a society that is extremely sensitive to perceived abuse of authority, then "prosecutions" that fail do a great deal of reputational damage to all members of the law enforcement system. ("THEY'RE JUST MEAN!!!") Making an accusation of cheating without pretty ironclad proof is going to look bad on everyone connected with it in the institution if it doesn't stick.

If you're going to jump from the roof of one building to another, you're better not to attempt it unless you're sure you can make it. Jumping halfway across is worse than not jumping.

[Puget]

Struggling student in my seminar comes in during the last 15 min of class. After class ends, he comes up to apologize, with a story about how he was on his way to class when his friend called from jail and he had to go bail him out. This is not the story you would tell if you were making up an excuse, so I tend to believe him. But also, he reeked of pot (legal here if 21, but probably not the best choice for either going to bail out your friend OR going to class?). I think this kid means well, but his life is a hot mess.

[apl68]

Of course, there's also the problem that a bachelors degree is not a guarantee of a job for many young people. I don't know how close we are to a tipping point where people decide that a college degree is largely meaningless. It does not feel that far away to me.

Already the conventional wisdom in many places.  Higher ed just isn't on the radar for a large proportion of our region's youth.  It never has been, since these are blue-collar communities.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, if youths get some kind of vocational-technical education instead.  We have a good vo-tech school right here in town.  Unfortunately a disturbingly high proportion of youths here and in many other places, rural and urban alike, have opted out of education of any sort, and out of any sort of socially useful role.  That's not good news for universities, employers, or anybody else.

[arcturus]

Several students are complaining about their low grades on a recent assignment. What I want to say: "Sorry, sometimes the internet is wrong. When you copied the answers for this assignment from [known source of cheating], you copied incorrect answers. We chose not to report you for academic misconduct, but instead graded based on what you submitted."

[ciao_yall]

Several students are complaining about their low grades on a recent assignment. What I want to say: "Sorry, sometimes the internet is wrong. When you copied the answers for this assignment from [known source of cheating], you copied incorrect answers. We chose not to report you for academic misconduct, but instead graded based on what you submitted."

Oh yes. "But the internet says the definition is... "

Well, yes. That is a general definition. And for purposes of this discipline, we use the following definition and application. This is why we read the textbook instead of Googling terms and grabbing the first link we see.

[mythbuster]

Or as my colleague who teaches anatomy says- Yes that answer is true . .  in SHARKS. But that's not how it works in people!

Apparently she has an early online assignment where if you google her question the first hit is about shark anatomy. It's how she catches the overly internet dependent early on. It's rather brilliant.

[the_geneticist]

Or as my colleague who teaches anatomy says- Yes that answer is true . .  in SHARKS. But that's not how it works in people!

Apparently she has an early online assignment where if you google her question the first hit is about shark anatomy. It's how she catches the overly internet dependent early on. It's rather brilliant.

I want to know the question!  And I want a similar question to use in my classes. . . . .

[Puget]

Or as my colleague who teaches anatomy says- Yes that answer is true . .  in SHARKS. But that's not how it works in people!

Apparently she has an early online assignment where if you google her question the first hit is about shark anatomy. It's how she catches the overly internet dependent early on. It's rather brilliant.

I want to know the question!  And I want a similar question to use in my classes. . . . .

I feel like adding "in sharks!" after things people say could be a hilarious and more work-appropriate version of the "in bed" thing.

[Caracal]

But still, it seems that schools that make the reporting and proof of cheating onerous for faculty are asking for big problems.

No they're not.  The tolerance of cheating is intentional, or at least intentional-by-default.

Unless it's enough to make it into the news, having some level of cheating *helps* a university, because having students pass courses is good for retention, which is good for enrollment, which helps the bottom line.

Only when you get to the point of having a genuine reputation of universal quality among graduates to protect does cheating become a problem.  Most universities don't have a reputation to protect.

Basically I agree. It enforces my use of that quotation about students adapted for administrations: "you can't care more about academic integrity than they do." Why should I put myself out with hours of work if the university doesn't care about it?

There's another issue which is analogous to the situation in the courts. In a society that is extremely sensitive to perceived abuse of authority, then "prosecutions" that fail do a great deal of reputational damage to all members of the law enforcement system. ("THEY'RE JUST MEAN!!!") Making an accusation of cheating without pretty ironclad proof is going to look bad on everyone connected with it in the institution if it doesn't stick.

If you're going to jump from the roof of one building to another, you're better not to attempt it unless you're sure you can make it. Jumping halfway across is worse than not jumping.

Gee, that's funny. I always thought I needed to be completely sure that a student had plagiarized before I accused them of anything, because it would be really terrible for me to accuse an innocent student of cheating. It would be an enormous abuse of authority if I accused a student of plagiarism without being sure. (If the student has an affirmative defense, that's different. The paper was the a copy of another paper because their evil roommate went on their computer and emailed it to themselves while they were in the shower)

Which is, you know, sort of what police and prosecutors are supposed to be doing too.

[Caracal]

Or as my colleague who teaches anatomy says- Yes that answer is true . .  in SHARKS. But that's not how it works in people!

Apparently she has an early online assignment where if you google her question the first hit is about shark anatomy. It's how she catches the overly internet dependent early on. It's rather brilliant.

I want to know the question!  And I want a similar question to use in my classes. . . . .

There's a 90s book about welfare reform and poverty that I assign in one of my classes called American Dream that works like this. Every year, I get at least a couple of students who tell me what the American dream means, or, more amusingly, give me highlight from the sprarknotes of an Edward Albee play called American Dream that seems to involve various characters called mommy, daddy and gramdma being terrible to each other.

One year when I assigned an excerpt from the diary of somebody named Chaplin, one student just gave me an excerpt from wikipedia about Charlie Chaplin. It shows you how checked out really bad students are. Why would we be reading about Charlie Chaplin?

[Antiphon1]

Or as my colleague who teaches anatomy says- Yes that answer is true . .  in SHARKS. But that's not how it works in people!

Apparently she has an early online assignment where if you google her question the first hit is about shark anatomy. It's how she catches the overly internet dependent early on. It's rather brilliant.

I want to know the question!  And I want a similar question to use in my classes. . . . .

There's a 90s book about welfare reform and poverty that I assign in one of my classes called American Dream that works like this. Every year, I get at least a couple of students who tell me what the American dream means, or, more amusingly, give me highlight from the sprarknotes of an Edward Albee play called American Dream that seems to involve various characters called mommy, daddy and gramdma being terrible to each other.

One year when I assigned an excerpt from the diary of somebody named Chaplin, one student just gave me an excerpt from wikipedia about Charlie Chaplin. It shows you how checked out really bad students are. Why would we be reading about Charlie Chaplin?

Oh, you could do a whole case study on Chaplin and the dissolution of the American Dream based on his personal life. Dissolute being the key term. 

[the_geneticist]

Maybe the anatomy questions is about gill arches?  Or how the body excretes ammonia?  Or something about how teeth grow?
I'm trying to figure out what would be a thing that is applicable to both humans and sharks, but the first google answer is true only in sharks. . . .

[mythbuster]

I have the now infamous shark question!
The question is: "Describe the location of the pericardial cavity."
If you google this exact question- the first hit says that the pericardial cavity is just anterior to the liver. COMPLETE WITH SHARK DIAGRAM!

[apl68]

I have the now infamous shark question!
The question is: "Describe the location of the pericardial cavity."
If you google this exact question- the first hit says that the pericardial cavity is just anterior to the liver. COMPLETE WITH SHARK DIAGRAM!

So does this mean that student Google "research" has now jumped the shark?