Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[AmLitHist]

That's all right, FishBrains--I really like that shirt on you.  :-)

From here:  a dual-enrolled HS student isn't graduating from HS because he not only flunked my Comp II class, but he also plagiarized in doing so . There was nary hide nor hair of a parenthetical citation, even after a whole semester of my teaching that them de facto plagiarism is just as valid as copy-and-paste or outright "stealing" plagiarism--we went over this stuff, covered it in readings and activities and exercises, etc. til I was blue in the face.  He's the only student who didn't document his (extensive) borrowing. Not only did all the 18 other students make the efforts, but they did it correctly.

I spent several hours getting my documentation in a row, and he filed a formal grade appeal without even talking to me first. 

As the first step of that appeal process, I met with him yesterday for over an hour. The basis of his justification that he didn't plagiarize:  his disagrees with the standard MLA definition of plagiarism and with the standard, MLA, taught-to-death methods for avoiding it. "I know I didn't put in any citations.  I don't have to.  That doesn't mean I plagiarized."  Over, and over, and over. . . .

Thank god I recorded the Teams meeting as evidence.  I fully expect him to pursue this up to and including before a formal appeals committee--and in my experience, they're usually head-over-heels in favor of giving the student what they ask for. They really don't want to try that with this case.  (I'm not in the mood, as my mother used to say.)

I'm left shaking (and banging) my head over this one.  Maybe I should just tell my campus President, "I don't have to show up for work or grade papers. I don't want to do it. That doesn't mean you can fire me for not doing my job."  Yeah; I'll let y'all know how that goes.

For what it's worth, he also failed pre-calc at my school. I don't know if that's contributing to his not graduating from HS. He might be playing both of us against the middle, hoping something works out.

(I'm not all that upset over this twerp. It's just reminded of how absurd some of these cases can be.)

[fishbrains]

That's all right, FishBrains--I really like that shirt on you.  :-)

From here:  a dual-enrolled HS student isn't graduating from HS because he not only flunked my Comp II class, but he also plagiarized in doing so . There was nary hide nor hair of a parenthetical citation, even after a whole semester of my teaching that them de facto plagiarism is just as valid as copy-and-paste or outright "stealing" plagiarism--we went over this stuff, covered it in readings and activities and exercises, etc. til I was blue in the face.  He's the only student who didn't document his (extensive) borrowing. Not only did all the 18 other students make the efforts, but they did it correctly.

I spent several hours getting my documentation in a row, and he filed a formal grade appeal without even talking to me first. 

As the first step of that appeal process, I met with him yesterday for over an hour. The basis of his justification that he didn't plagiarize:  his disagrees with the standard MLA definition of plagiarism and with the standard, MLA, taught-to-death methods for avoiding it. "I know I didn't put in any citations.  I don't have to.  That doesn't mean I plagiarized."  Over, and over, and over. . . .

Thank god I recorded the Teams meeting as evidence.  I fully expect him to pursue this up to and including before a formal appeals committee--and in my experience, they're usually head-over-heels in favor of giving the student what they ask for. They really don't want to try that with this case.  (I'm not in the mood, as my mother used to say.)

I'm left shaking (and banging) my head over this one.  Maybe I should just tell my campus President, "I don't have to show up for work or grade papers. I don't want to do it. That doesn't mean you can fire me for not doing my job."  Yeah; I'll let y'all know how that goes.

For what it's worth, he also failed pre-calc at my school. I don't know if that's contributing to his not graduating from HS. He might be playing both of us against the middle, hoping something works out.

(I'm not all that upset over this twerp. It's just reminded of how absurd some of these cases can be.)

Hey! Get out of my life! And, no, you can't have my favorite shirt either!

Seriously, I had a similar experience with a Chat GPT essay from a dual enrolled student last Spring.My college didn't really have a functional policy at the time, so he slithered by even after I graded the living $hit out of his essay.

[kaysixteen]

These dual enrollment kids, how much oversight over the college classes they take is usually undertaken by their hs teachers/ counselors/ admins, and what if any standards do the hss use to determine which of their students would be mature enough to enroll in college classes?  Do these hs staffers ever contact the professors?

[Antiphon1]

These dual enrollment kids, how much oversight over the college classes they take is usually undertaken by their hs teachers/ counselors/ admins, and what if any standards do the hss use to determine which of their students would be mature enough to enroll in college classes?  Do these hs staffers ever contact the professors?

In my experience, some high schools take dual credit and the course work very seriously.  Never have to worry about those schools or the work turned in from their students.  Other schools have the worst sort of ad hoc approach to the classes and administration of any standards.  To be fair, the hot mess schools also play fast and loose with their high school curriculum.  I've quit trying to save people who don't want to be saved.  Cheaters will ultimately run out of cheatable circumstances.  I don't have to be the academic firewall for all of them. 

[sonoamused]

Apparently the hill I have decided to die on is refusing to convert the documents that lay out my expectations for our class project extremely clearly into some kind of grid format so that students will be forced to acknowledge that they do actually have "a rubric" for what I expect.

Who is asking for this? Admin or students?

Students. Lots of whining about how they couldn't possibly know how to write a good paper if there's no rubric. This is despite LOTS of communication via many tracks that all the expectations for the project can be found in the posted/linked/attached document helpfully labeled "project expectations". I was venting to a colleague who pointed out that I could easily convert that document into something students would recognize as a rubric. But as noted I have, for the moment, decided this is my hill.

Rename it project rubrics and then you can tell the students that you have one.   There is nothing in the definition of rubric that says it has to be a chart.

[the_geneticist]

Apparently the hill I have decided to die on is refusing to convert the documents that lay out my expectations for our class project extremely clearly into some kind of grid format so that students will be forced to acknowledge that they do actually have "a rubric" for what I expect.

Who is asking for this? Admin or students?

Reformat to put 2 columns next to every section. 'Yep' vs 'Nope'
Now it's a rubric!
Students. Lots of whining about how they couldn't possibly know how to write a good paper if there's no rubric. This is despite LOTS of communication via many tracks that all the expectations for the project can be found in the posted/linked/attached document helpfully labeled "project expectations". I was venting to a colleague who pointed out that I could easily convert that document into something students would recognize as a rubric. But as noted I have, for the moment, decided this is my hill.

Rename it project rubrics and then you can tell the students that you have one.   There is nothing in the definition of rubric that says it has to be a chart.

[onthefringe]

Apparently the hill I have decided to die on is refusing to convert the documents that lay out my expectations for our class project extremely clearly into some kind of grid format so that students will be forced to acknowledge that they do actually have "a rubric" for what I expect.

Who is asking for this? Admin or students?

Students. Lots of whining about how they couldn't possibly know how to write a good paper if there's no rubric. This is despite LOTS of communication via many tracks that all the expectations for the project can be found in the posted/linked/attached document helpfully labeled "project expectations". I was venting to a colleague who pointed out that I could easily convert that document into something students would recognize as a rubric. But as noted I have, for the moment, decided this is my hill.

Rename it project rubrics and then you can tell the students that you have one.   There is nothing in the definition of rubric that says it has to be a chart.

Nope, this is still my hill. I'm just telling them that all the information they need about my expectations for a good project is in the document called "project expectations"

[OneMoreYear]

I'm now dealing with the 4th plagiarism case in one of my summer, short-term graduate courses. I thought I was done with this crap as the major research assignment was already submitted. Latest plagiarism case is on a small, creative assignment that required a brief written explanation with one source (textbook permitted!). Plagiarist responded to my request for a meeting by telling me that they are happy to re-do the assignment "if I would like." What I would like is for you not to plagiarize. I am soooooo over this. I have revamped this course when I took it over to make it very applied. But next year, I'm tempted to revert to a closed-book, in-class final as the grade for the course; pass it or don't.

[AmLitHist]

I'm now dealing with the 4th plagiarism case in one of my summer, short-term graduate courses. I thought I was done with this crap as the major research assignment was already submitted. Latest plagiarism case is on a small, creative assignment that required a brief written explanation with one source (textbook permitted!). Plagiarist responded to my request for a meeting by telling me that they are happy to re-do the assignment "if I would like." What I would like is for you not to plagiarize. I am soooooo over this. I have revamped this course when I took it over to make it very applied. But next year, I'm tempted to revert to a closed-book, in-class final as the grade for the course; pass it or don't.

^^ This.  A thousand times this.  ^^

[Istiblennius]

Here comes a saga of despair...

All the way back in March when the term started, clueless student contacts me via our LMS message system the day following our first day "I thought class was on Thursday only, so I didn't make it. Did we do anything today?"

So we're already off to a good start. He shows up on Thursday and both days the following week, so I'm thinking we're over this initial hiccup. And then... he disappears for another week and a half. On the day he gets back he lets me know that he was visiting family and that he'll be returning to his home state at some point later this term for knee surgery, and that he'll likely miss a lot of class. I say, "you've already missed a lot of class, the withdrawal deadline is coming up. You should use it". He says "School is important to me. I'm not sure yet when the surgery will happen, but if I have to miss class I'll make sure I do my work." I say "You've already missed a lot of class and you have not made up your work. You are going to need to change your strategy to demonstrate that school is important to you".

Now we're at midterms and I get to fill out the student athlete referral forms. He is likely contacted by his coach at this point because I get an LMS message from my good pal asking me what he needs to do to get back on track. I remind him that we've already talked about coming to class and doing your work.

Cue another week of no shows. I assume he has decided to withdraw, but he's still on the class list when I check. And here comes another contact "I'm getting ready to go get my surgery so I'm going to be missing class. What should I do to make up my work". I write back "You already have a significant backlog of work and you are just getting the surgery. I do not see this being a term in which you can succeed. The withdrawal deadline is this week. I strongly suggest you withdraw and retake the class during a term in which you are better prepared to attend and complete your work to succeed"

He does not.

While I do not see him in person again, we continue to exchange messages through the LMS in which he lets me know he is working really hard to stay caught up and really appreciates me. I remind him that he has not submitted any of the really hard work he has done and that student affairs has an option for medical withdrawal, now that he missed the regular withdrawal deadline he should look into that. He reminds me he's a really serious student to whom school is important.

Last week of the term. I remind all students with missing work that the deadline approacheth and make some recommendations on what they should prioritize to complete. I hear back from my most dedicated student (guess who) that he is on it! All that work will be turned in today.

It is not.

I complete grading late work and final projects and update our LMS. But wait, what's this? It's a message from a student! "Hello professor, I am trying to submit my work, but LMS won't accept it. Can you give me your email address (which is on the home page of our LMS and on the syllabus) so I can get that to you?"

I unleash hell. It feels good, especially since I have so many head banging splinters at this point that I look like a hedgehog.

[the_geneticist]

Dang.  That's a student who is learning the hard way about "play stupid games, win stupid prizes "

[FishProf]

I got to reply to Financial Aid today. 
They asked "What was [Stu's] last day of attendance for Sp 23?"

"Never"

I am pleased.

[marshwiggle]

I got to reply to Financial Aid today. 
They asked "What was [Stu's] last day of attendance for Sp 23?"

"Never"

Alternate response:

"As it says in Scripture, the first shall be last. Stu must be very religious."

[OneMoreYear]

I'm pretty sure I got plagiarism bingo in my meeting with my latest plagiarist.

• I'm not a cheater
• I've never seen those websites that Turn It In says I plagiarized from
• I don't know how it could be that my assignment has the same words as that website
• If I plagiarized, it was unintentional
• Is there any way I can re-do the assignment for credit?
• I've never been accused of this before

Why is it that after these meetings I feel so drained when I'm not the one who screwed up?

[arcturus]

I'm pretty sure I got plagiarism bingo in my meeting with my latest plagiarist.

• I'm not a cheater
• I've never seen those websites that Turn It In says I plagiarized from
• I don't know how it could be that my assignment has the same words as that website
• If I plagiarized, it was unintentional
• Is there any way I can re-do the assignment for credit?
• I've never been accused of this before

Why is it that after these meetings I feel so drained when I'm not the one who screwed up?

I am sorry that you had to experience this. I also feel drained by these meetings. I think it is due to the cognitive dissonance between what the student is saying and what we know is true. As academics, we value truth and rational argument. To be gas-lighted by students is antithetical to our very being.