Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[mythbuster]

I just got back from taking a bunch of students to Pittsburgh for a conference- these are smart kids, good kids, more aware than many kids.
On our afternoon off, we rode the Trolley to the top of the cliff (very cool!). I mentioned Mr. Rogers- crickets. I start singing won't you be my neighbor-- still crickets. No clue who he was.

Only about 3 of them had a clue who Andy Warhol was when I suggested going to the Warhol museum as well.

So I'm not so sure now about the alphabet song thing.

[apl68]

I just got back from taking a bunch of students to Pittsburgh for a conference- these are smart kids, good kids, more aware than many kids.
On our afternoon off, we rode the Trolley to the top of the cliff (very cool!). I mentioned Mr. Rogers- crickets. I start singing won't you be my neighbor-- still crickets. No clue who he was.

Only about 3 of them had a clue who Andy Warhol was when I suggested going to the Warhol museum as well.

So I'm not so sure now about the alphabet song thing.

Well...Fred Rogers has been deceased for over two decades now, and most students probably aren't taught a lot about art in school anymore.  But it's kind of disturbing to think that the alphabet song--or at least something more or less equivalent--has been dropped from our elementary teaching.

[the_geneticist]

Had an odd conversation with a student who is *getting an A+* in [Baskets 101]. 
He wanted to argue about getting partial credit on an assignment where he left part of it blank. 

Why?

He wants to be #1 in the class. 
He seems unconvinced by my saying that rank does not matter, we don't keep track or even really notice. Students earn grade as individuals & not in competition with their classmates.
I said it won't show up on his transcript, we don't report or keep track at all.
There are 400 students in the class - we expect many, many of them to also earn an A.

He thinks that being #1 in a class will matter for getting in to medical school.  Calm down stu, you are are in your Fall quarter of your first year in college in introductory classes.  You should not be asking your [Baskets 101] instructor for a letter to get into medical school or graduate school anyway

[Puget]

Had an odd conversation with a student who is *getting an A+* in [Baskets 101]. 
He wanted to argue about getting partial credit on an assignment where he left part of it blank. 

Why?

He wants to be #1 in the class. 
He seems unconvinced by my saying that rank does not matter, we don't keep track or even really notice. Students earn grade as individuals & not in competition with their classmates.
I said it won't show up on his transcript, we don't report or keep track at all.
There are 400 students in the class - we expect many, many of them to also earn an A.

He thinks that being #1 in a class will matter for getting in to medical school.  Calm down stu, you are are in your Fall quarter of your first year in college in introductory classes.  You should not be asking your [Baskets 101] instructor for a letter to get into medical school or graduate school anyway

Uh oh,  "pre-med student syndrome" -- though if he is very distressed,  it may also be time for a talk about perfectionism with mental health professional.

Alternatively, any chance this is an international student? I've learned from my Chinese students that class ranks there are publicly posted for all to see and compare, and a big deal made of being #1 in the class, so if so he may just need to adjust to that not being the case in the US.

[the_geneticist]

He might be an international student.  He did seem a bit surprised that students are not ranked and that grades are not competitive.  I'll send him to the Health Professions Advising folks.  They have lots of resources about what it takes to get into medical school (and what things do not matter).

[mythbuster]

I call it the 4.0 identity. I always ask these students to guess what my undergad GPA was. They are ALWAYS convinced that all profs had 4.0s as well. They are always shocked when I reveal my 3.25, with what I'm sure was a mercy passing C in calculus 2. Then I start the conversation about who they are beyond their GPA. Because that will matter to get into med school as well.

I agree that ff he's international, this may be a real culture shock.

[Stockmann]

I teach a lab course for which I teach four rotations of the same topic. For each rotation, I grade on the basis of a report, and an exam at the end of each rotation. For each team, I assign by lottery one practical exam and the others get a written exam. While I'm doing the practical exam with the one student doing the practical, the others are answering the written exam - they do have different versions of the exam, but otherwise there's no real safeguards against cheating - I don't have a TA so no one's proctoring. The exam is also multiple choice, just five questions.

For the latest rotation, the student doing the practical aced it, but the others ranged from 1/5 (the expectation value if they answered entirely randomly) to 3/5. The previous rotation did similarly. It didn't use to be this bad, there used to be normally a couple of 5/5 per rotation. So I'm wondering if they´re cheating using ChatGPT and it's terrible at this topic or if they're really that clueless. The icing on the cake - I've been berated by a colleague for making the exam too easy. I'm not looking forward to this set of reports...

[Hegemony]

It didn't use to be this bad...

I just want to commend you on the only correct usage of this past-tense construction of "use" I have seen in ages...

[apl68]

Had an odd conversation with a student who is *getting an A+* in [Baskets 101]. 
He wanted to argue about getting partial credit on an assignment where he left part of it blank. 

Why?

He wants to be #1 in the class. 
He seems unconvinced by my saying that rank does not matter, we don't keep track or even really notice. Students earn grade as individuals & not in competition with their classmates.
I said it won't show up on his transcript, we don't report or keep track at all.
There are 400 students in the class - we expect many, many of them to also earn an A.

He thinks that being #1 in a class will matter for getting in to medical school.  Calm down stu, you are are in your Fall quarter of your first year in college in introductory classes.  You should not be asking your [Baskets 101] instructor for a letter to get into medical school or graduate school anyway

Uh oh,  "pre-med student syndrome" -- though if he is very distressed,  it may also be time for a talk about perfectionism with mental health professional.

Alternatively, any chance this is an international student? I've learned from my Chinese students that class ranks there are publicly posted for all to see and compare, and a big deal made of being #1 in the class, so if so he may just need to adjust to that not being the case in the US.

Either way, it sounds like the poor fellow has been subjected to a fearfully high amount of pressure back home.

[the_geneticist]

Had an odd conversation with a student who is *getting an A+* in [Baskets 101]. 
He wanted to argue about getting partial credit on an assignment where he left part of it blank. 

Why?

He wants to be #1 in the class. 
He seems unconvinced by my saying that rank does not matter, we don't keep track or even really notice. Students earn grade as individuals & not in competition with their classmates.
I said it won't show up on his transcript, we don't report or keep track at all.
There are 400 students in the class - we expect many, many of them to also earn an A.

He thinks that being #1 in a class will matter for getting in to medical school.  Calm down stu, you are are in your Fall quarter of your first year in college in introductory classes.  You should not be asking your [Baskets 101] instructor for a letter to get into medical school or graduate school anyway

Uh oh,  "pre-med student syndrome" -- though if he is very distressed,  it may also be time for a talk about perfectionism with mental health professional.

Alternatively, any chance this is an international student? I've learned from my Chinese students that class ranks there are publicly posted for all to see and compare, and a big deal made of being #1 in the class, so if so he may just need to adjust to that not being the case in the US.

Either way, it sounds like the poor fellow has been subjected to a fearfully high amount of pressure back home.

He's back again today, wants credit for 1 point on a quiz from 4 weeks ago.  *sigh*

I agree that he got the question right, but it's getting ridiculous.  I tried talking him down, reminded him that he's already doing great, the Final Exam has a lot of points, etc.  That, yes, he can earn an A+.  Tried to redirect his energy towards studying for the Final Exam (or his other classes).

I showed him the website for the health professions advising center.  Hopefully that will convince him that perfect grades are not necessary (and also not sufficient!  You need many other pieces in your application). 

Maybe he will feel better?  I can't be upset with him since his heart is mostly in the right place

[Stockmann]

It didn't use to be this bad...

I just want to commend you on the only correct usage of this past-tense construction of "use" I have seen in ages...

Thanks...

[Antiphon1]

6 times getting busted for 100% AI use on low stakes writing assignments seems excessive. Then you want to question my scepticism of your moral compass on a clear case of copying off your seatmate's wrong answers.  Word for word.  Which wormhole in the time space continum did you fall into? Maybe you aren't ready for college level classes?  You sure act like a slow learner. 

[poiuy]

I am grading the final paper for the class, a lightly scaffolded assignment that had some earlier pieces to turn in so that students could stay on track and not do everything at the last minute.
I have language in my Syllabus that no AI is to be used in the class.
There is a generous submission window, and most students will nevertheless wait until the deadline of 4th December.
But .... out of the 8 papers turned in, I have one with glaring AI use. I will turn them into Academic Integrity on Monday, but dread that there may be more.
(I already had 3 cases for the smaller writing assignment in the earlier part of the semester).

[mythbuster]

Poiuy, since its before the deadline, it might be time for the all class "reminder" about the AI policy. Maybe some will submit a new assignment? At least it might head off a few at the pass.

[poiuy]

Poiuy, since its before the deadline, it might be time for the all class "reminder" about the AI policy. Maybe some will submit a new assignment? At least it might head off a few at the pass.

Thanks for the thought @mythbuster. I had done that for the previous assignment after catching some of the plagiarists then, and stupidly thought that would have been enough for the semester.
Yeah, I should do the announcement again.