Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[traductio]

What do eighteen-year-olds really know?  What they like; what they do not?  Sure!  But are their criteria "informed"?  OK, OK--let them say what they think.  Maybe they are more percipient than not.

They are gone next semester; you remain. And yet...

I would like to see student evaluations that are not written until the end of the following semester. After emotions cooled and they saw whether or not it better prepared them for the next step.

What I'd be genuinely curious to see is evaluations a decade after students graduate. There were courses that frustrated the crap out of me as an undergrad or grad student that, years later, came to appear as foundational in my thinking. The frustration was very productive, but also a very slow burn.

[spork]

What do eighteen-year-olds really know?  What they like; what they do not?  Sure!  But are their criteria "informed"?  OK, OK--let them say what they think.  Maybe they are more percipient than not.

They are gone next semester; you remain. And yet...

I would like to see student evaluations that are not written until the end of the following semester. After emotions cooled and they saw whether or not it better prepared them for the next step.

I would like to see evaluations of students. "Zachary Olsen's performance in Basketweaving 101 was lackluster, perhaps due to spotty attendance and a lack of note-taking." The results get compiled every semester and are sent to the student's respective advisor, other relevant parties, and to the student in the form of a running dossier.

[sprout]

I would like to see evaluations of students. "Zachary Olsen's performance in Basketweaving 101 was lackluster, perhaps due to spotty attendance and a lack of note-taking." The results get compiled every semester and are sent to the student's respective advisor, other relevant parties, and to the student in the form of a running dossier.

Some schools do this.

[marshwiggle]

I would like to see evaluations of students. "Zachary Olsen's performance in Basketweaving 101 was lackluster, perhaps due to spotty attendance and a lack of note-taking." The results get compiled every semester and are sent to the student's respective advisor, other relevant parties, and to the student in the form of a running dossier.

Some schools do this.

That sounds like an incredibly tedious process.

[kaysixteen]

Boarding schools do this as a matter of course.   It's one of their key selling points.   Whether the average undergraduate,  c. 2020, could also use such services is perhaps a matter of debate,  but I tend to vote  yes.

[marshwiggle]

Boarding schools do this as a matter of course.   It's one of their key selling points.   Whether the average undergraduate,  c. 2020, could also use such services is perhaps a matter of debate,  but I tend to vote  yes.

From the article:

All the work you do is potentially part of your evaluation. Faculty will look at the assignments, tests, presentations, and other projects as they prepare to evaluate your work.

The narrative evaluation is a dialogue. You'll get more feedback with how well you're doing, so you know where to go next, and what you're prepared for. The level of detail in an evaluation can go far beyond a single letter or number. It can help you improve over the course of your college career and do your best.


Students and faculty are encouraged to meet during Evaluation Week to share what they've written. This is an opportunity for you to talk in person about what will go into your transcript.

Yes this would be wonderful to do for each and every one of the hundreds of students an instructor has each term.

[kaysixteen]

How many ft tt profs really teach hundreds of students per year or semester, and how many of these do so without TAs?  On the contrary,  however,  most public hs teachers certainly have triple digit student counts, usually without any paraprofessional aid, which is of course why those prep schools can and do offer so much more intensive teacher feedback regimens.

[Hegemony]

I typically have 80 students per term. If I had time to give them more individual attention than I currently do, there are a lot of things I'd help them with, starting with the mechanics and organization of their writing, which are on average pretty lackluster. More individualized evaluation at the end would be pretty useless, comparatively speaking. In general they know what parts of the course they're not so good at. What they lack is one or both of the following: guidance to improve the skills they're weak on; the motivation to care.

[marshwiggle]

How many ft tt profs really teach hundreds of students per year or semester, and how many of these do so without TAs? 

TAs aren't going to help at all with the "personalized" feedback; that's going to have to be done by the prof. As for how common it is, in lots of places all of the first year courses have hundreds of students, and in those programs it's not until 4th year that students will possibly experience a course with single-digit enrolment. In those places basically all of the profs will have hundreds of students.

On the contrary,  however,  most public hs teachers certainly have triple digit student counts, usually without any paraprofessional aid, which is of course why those prep schools can and do offer so much more intensive teacher feedback regimens.

For years here, the report cards have been created using software, which includes lists of comments teachers can pick from. They're only "personalized" by which comments a teacher picks for a given student.

[apl68]

How many ft tt profs really teach hundreds of students per year or semester, and how many of these do so without TAs? 

TAs aren't going to help at all with the "personalized" feedback; that's going to have to be done by the prof. As for how common it is, in lots of places all of the first year courses have hundreds of students, and in those programs it's not until 4th year that students will possibly experience a course with single-digit enrolment. In those places basically all of the profs will have hundreds of students.

Well, when I was a TA we were required to at least try to provide substantial personalized feedback.  Whether it was worth as much as what the prof could give is another matter.

[marshwiggle]

How many ft tt profs really teach hundreds of students per year or semester, and how many of these do so without TAs? 

TAs aren't going to help at all with the "personalized" feedback; that's going to have to be done by the prof. As for how common it is, in lots of places all of the first year courses have hundreds of students, and in those programs it's not until 4th year that students will possibly experience a course with single-digit enrolment. In those places basically all of the profs will have hundreds of students.

Well, when I was a TA we were required to at least try to provide substantial personalized feedback.  Whether it was worth as much as what the prof could give is another matter.

If the prof has to sit down and discuss with each student, s/he will still have to spend significant time going over whatever feedback the TAs have given about each student, which will still be incredibly time-consuming.

[Parasaurolophus]

I have eight classes of 35, although they're usually over-enrolled by 5-10. Say ~160 per semester, ~320 per year. No TAs or grading support.

[traductio]

I have eight classes of 35, although they're usually over-enrolled by 5-10. Say ~160 per semester, ~320 per year. No TAs or grading support.

Ouch. That makes the work you describe in the research threads all the more impressive.

[secundem_artem]

What do eighteen-year-olds really know?  What they like; what they do not?  Sure!  But are their criteria "informed"?  OK, OK--let them say what they think.  Maybe they are more percipient than not.

They are gone next semester; you remain. And yet...

I would like to see student evaluations that are not written until the end of the following semester. After emotions cooled and they saw whether or not it better prepared them for the next step.

What I'd be genuinely curious to see is evaluations a decade after students graduate. There were courses that frustrated the crap out of me as an undergrad or grad student that, years later, came to appear as foundational in my thinking. The frustration was very productive, but also a very slow burn.

I got an email from a student a few years back that said something along the lines of, "I took Clog Dancing and Society from you 3 years ago.  At the time, I thought you were crazy.  Now that I am a senior, I get what you were talking about back then."

Course evaluations are a blend of what gets asked, who gets asked and when they get asked.  Even if the "what" is addressed by using psychometrically validated instruments, the "who" and "when" are usually 18-22 year olds who are stressed out of their minds with final essays, capstones, exams etc.  No wonder the results are often not pretty. 

I learned a long time ago that comments like "everybody in the class thought...." means "me and 2 friends".  I'm grateful my department heads have historically known how to sort the signal from the noise in my evals.

[mamselle]

"I took Clog Dancing and Society from you 3 years ago."

I'm going to guess that was a stand-in for the ubiquitous Basket-weaving meme....

But I did a double take when I saw it. I actually was the TA for course with almost that title.

Part of my job was the accordion accompaniment.

;--}

DL