Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[AvidReader]

Ugh.  Better document all of this just in case you have to kick it up the chain of command.
I'd tell Stu to chat with their academic advisor since if they are having this much trouble completing one class, it is most likely true for all of their classes.  And say that it is not mathematically possible for Stu to pass the class - they should withdraw or drop.

I think the email chain documents it pretty well, but also . . . I have no chain of command, and this is not Stu's first attempt at the course. Stu did not pass any classes last semester. I am sure the advisor is aware that there are issues.

AR.

[fishbrains]

Student who has never attended class and has not turned in a single piece of work all semester, large or small, decided last week that it would be nice to take the midterm. I don't know why.

The midterm was open last week from 8 a.m. Monday to 11:59 p.m. Friday.

Stu emailed at 11:40 p.m. Friday with a sob story about how Stu had lost internet and couldn't take it after all. Ten minutes later, Stu logged in to the midterm and failed to submit anything before 11:59 hit.

Since Stu had already seen the midterm, I said Stu could come to any of my four blocks of office hours (8 hrs. total) with a blue book and write a make-up exam in person. Stu was most grateful. I sent a list of my office hours: before classes even begin on Mon and Wed and immediately after Stu's class meets on the same two afternoons.

Yesterday, Stu emailed me in the middle of Stu's class (not attending) to explain that Stu couldn't make it to campus for my last available office hour block (that afternoon). Could Stu take it next Monday instead? No. Could Stu take it today? No. New email from Stu suggests tomorrow instead. No. Somehow I am confident that Stu's inability to take the exam will all be my fault.

Stu has missed 7 weeks of work. Stu cannot pass even if Stu takes the midterm. If Stu wants credit for doing something, Stu could come to class or submit a different assignment. There are dozens of other available items.

AR.

Alas, I remember when there used to be honor among slackers. Standards, lines you wouldn't cross, maybe a fleeting sense of shame passing through at times . . . like . . . you know . . .

[marshwiggle]

Student who has never attended class and has not turned in a single piece of work all semester, large or small, decided last week that it would be nice to take the midterm. I don't know why.
.
.
.

Stu has missed 7 weeks of work. Stu cannot pass even if Stu takes the midterm. If Stu wants credit for doing something, Stu could come to class or submit a different assignment. There are dozens of other available items.

AR.

Alas, I remember when there used to be honor among slackers. Standards, lines you wouldn't cross, maybe a fleeting sense of shame passing through at times . . . like . . . you know . . .

That was before the age of "everyone-is-a-victim". Now it's fashionable to make all of ones' failures results of bad public school, undiagnosed learning disability, inadequate parental support, etc. even if the main problem was missing all Friday classes and tests due to being passed out and hungover after Thursday night parties...... (They're a thing here where many students go home to nearby big city on weekends, so the big party night isn't Friday or Saturday.)

[fishbrains]

Student who has never attended class and has not turned in a single piece of work all semester, large or small, decided last week that it would be nice to take the midterm. I don't know why.
.
.
.

Stu has missed 7 weeks of work. Stu cannot pass even if Stu takes the midterm. If Stu wants credit for doing something, Stu could come to class or submit a different assignment. There are dozens of other available items.

AR.

Alas, I remember when there used to be honor among slackers. Standards, lines you wouldn't cross, maybe a fleeting sense of shame passing through at times . . . like . . . you know . . .

That was before the age of "everyone-is-a-victim". Now it's fashionable to make all of ones' failures results of bad public school, undiagnosed learning disability, inadequate parental support, etc. even if the main problem was missing all Friday classes and tests due to being passed out and hungover after Thursday night parties...... (They're a thing here where many students go home to nearby big city on weekends, so the big party night isn't Friday or Saturday.)

I don't know. Maybe. The rules for teaching have changed a bit as well . . . probably for the better.

Dean Wormer's comment in Animal House that "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son" was something I could imagine a professor actually saying to at least one of my fellow non-achieving students back in the early 80's. My high school teachers certainly had no hesitation in telling us when we were being total f*ck-ups.

At any rate, life is good right here and now.

[teach_write_research]

Our group project in the midst of remote pandemic learning is hobbling along and then someone has to go and be That Student.

Frustrated Student: Silent Student isn't doing anything!
Me: Ok, thanks for letting me know. I'll check into it ... Did you see their chat message letting you know they had an athletics competition today? I see they attended this set of meetings but these others were athletics travel conflicts. Do you see their contributions in the shared doc?
Frustrated Student: Silent Student never talks during our meetings! We do all the work!

I dig into logs and such. Silent Student has a strong A. Regularly messages me. Participates in the whole class remote meeting. Ohhhh. Frustrated Student missed meetings, late assignments, lower grade. Ah. Perhaps that frustration is a bit misdirected?

Closing scene.
Frustrated Student: I will miss class on Monday and the final project presentation because of athletics travel.
Me: flails to rid myself of young adult drama by dumping it on the fora, thanks for reading!

[mythbuster]

Is Frustrated Student even an athlete? Or are they just trying for what they perceive to be special consideration?

[kaysixteen]

Of course, the professor is also allowing Silent Student, an A student who is also an athlete, to not do anything on group project.

Another reason to hate group work.   Except in certain fields/ courses where the actual skill of group work effort is itself being taught, why does anyone bother with assigning such projects, when we all know that there will be freeloaders therein.

[Zeus Bird]

Of course, the professor is also allowing Silent Student, an A student who is also an athlete, to not do anything on group project.

Another reason to hate group work.   Except in certain fields/ courses where the actual skill of group work effort is itself being taught, why does anyone bother with assigning such projects, when we all know that there will be freeloaders therein.

I never assign group projects without incorporating an element of anonymous peer review that is factored into a student's grade.  It doesn't solve the problem of freeloading entirely, but does provide an incentive for students not to slack off.

[teach_write_research]

Of course, the professor is also allowing Silent Student, an A student who is also an athlete, to not do anything on group project.

Another reason to hate group work.   Except in certain fields/ courses where the actual skill of group work effort is itself being taught, why does anyone bother with assigning such projects, when we all know that there will be freeloaders therein.

I can't tell if this post is sarcastic or assuming I'm being irresponsible with directing the group project and holding students accountable.

Yes, this is a group project because we are exactly in a field that heavily uses collaboration and they need to learn these basics, including effective communication and conflict resolution, for a later course in the major. We then advise them on how to transfer those skills to their next steps after college.

Frustrated student is definitely an athlete; it's a simple check of the team roster and the coach's travel/competition notification.

Absolutely you need to have a system for hearing what the students are experiencing. I don't have them specifically "grade" each other but they do reflect on and rate their individual contributions and the group experience. That, along with multiple individual assignments, helps me detect slackers and adjust scores when needed, or identify students with legitimate reasons to finish independently.

What else do folks do that helps students have a reasonably successful group project experience?

[kaysixteen]

So how do you deal with the freeloader problem?   Denying its existence, or requiring undergrads to solve it themselves, both are more or less nonstarters.   Even in fields that require collaborative skills.

[ciao_yall]

Mine all are in a group to share research, but they all turn in their own paper. So, they don't have to share their work with someone who doesn't do anything, right?

I had one student offer to wash the cars of his teammates when they told him to go **** off.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Mine all are in a group to share research, but they all turn in their own paper. So, they don't have to share their work with someone who doesn't do anything, right?

I had one student offer to wash the cars of his teammates when they told him to go **** off.

Wow. Funny, but not too surprising.

[the_geneticist]

So how do you deal with the freeloader problem?   Denying its existence, or requiring undergrads to solve it themselves, both are more or less nonstarters.   Even in fields that require collaborative skills.

I have teams sign a contract saying who is responsible for which tasks, when the tasks will be completed, the date of their next team meeting, etc.
I also build in time during class for them to work with their teams (reduces the "we couldn't find a time to meet!" issue).

Students that really do not contribute are the ones who typically drop the class.

[OneMoreYear]

Bang! It's midterm time, so notices went out to students who are not doing well, so they can make a decision about stepping it up or withdrawing before the deadline.  I had a conversation with a graduate student, which included such revelations as: the syllabus does in fact provide the specifications for the major assignment for the course, perhaps purchasing the required course text would be helpful, and maybe it would be important to concentrate on the required classes for the program rather than taking fun electives during the semester in which you are scheduled to take one of the "hardest" courses in the program.

[Stockmann]

Of course, the professor is also allowing Silent Student, an A student who is also an athlete, to not do anything on group project.

Another reason to hate group work.   Except in certain fields/ courses where the actual skill of group work effort is itself being taught, why does anyone bother with assigning such projects, when we all know that there will be freeloaders therein.

I never assign group projects without incorporating an element of anonymous peer review that is factored into a student's grade.  It doesn't solve the problem of freeloading entirely, but does provide an incentive for students not to slack off.

I've done two approaches, separately, both imperfect but both help I think:
-Peer review. Their grade has a component determined by the average grade given, anonymously, by their team mates.
-The other one is what I like to think of as "real world rules" - freelancing or starting your own business are not theoretical constructs in all fields, and neither are quitting or getting fired. Thus I let those who want to to go it alone, and they can also subdivide the original team however they choose. Thus while the initial teams are assigned to them, they don't have to stay intact.