Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[arcturus]

In my 100-level large enrollment general education course, I often get citations to "nasa.gov". This is essentially useless as a citation, as NASA has thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of pages on the internet. I need the full link to verify the source. Other than that, though, I am willing to consider any reasonable format for citations, as I know that the field norms vary significantly.

[Caracal]

Students were given a formatted word template (MLA, first page) during the first week of class. They were also given a formatted template for their bibliography page.

Stu who still submits assignments that do not conform to the formatting and other requirements is now complaining that nothing Stu does is good enough. Stu, use the templates. Stu apparently needs a babysitter to read the modules and assignments so that Stu can find the templates. Stu has also twice ignored peer reviews that addressed the formatting issues. Stu doesn't seem to be aware of the existence of the templates.

Time for a post-midterm warning.

Dumb question so I beg your indulgence.

Why do faculty stress so heavily on reference formatting conventions?  They are really only ever used in academic writing which few students will do after they graduate.  Those who go on to graduate school are presumably bright enough to learn the convention of their particular discipline and use it in their academic work.  Undergrads who may be taking courses across STEM, the liberal arts, the social sciences and the health sciences are often faced with having to figure out multiple reference formats in a single semester.

My response to this is that I prefer students to use NLM, but they can use any format they are comfortable with and mistakes in formatting will not be held against them as long as I can find the original citation with minimal effort.

This seems to lower students' blood pressure and I can generally figure out where their source material came from easily enough.  I'll leave it to their graduate advisors to sort out the rest.

In practice, I don't actually take off points for citation errors as long as the student has made a reasonable attempt to cite their sources. I do feel compelled to tell them how to do it correctly, however, because I know that other instructors do care and I don't want them to be blindsided in another class. Also, if they do something like a senior thesis it really will matter. Broadly, I also agree that its important that students learn about conventions.

I'm with you, however, that I don't know how much value there is in taking a really hard line on it. One thing I've noticed is that students really fixate on citation rules and formats, often far more than they worry about following the rest of the instructions for the paper or making an argument, or backing up their points with evidence. If they did all that stuff well, maybe I'd spend more time teaching citing.

[teach_write_research]

Students worked together to answer a question on a low-stakes assignment. Their answer, conceptually, made no sense for the topic. Like, no idea what someone was thinking. The question was a simple reading comprehension that could be answered from the textbook. Well that all took a lot more of my time than it needed to given that it was a simple low stakes reading comprehension assignment. Sigh. It would have been easier if they had just skipped it or said I don't have the book.

What's the point of making that group work? I sometimes break students into groups, but its usually to discuss some short piece of reading or document and answer some conceptual questions on it that should require a bit of thought. Mostly, I'm just trying to break up the flow of class and create conditions in which some of the students who don't talk much in class will engage a bit.

It was an individual assignment outside of class time. Working on it together was not a good decision for multiple reasons. Though it did give me a relatively accurate signal that they collectively had not done the reading!

[Langue_doc]

Students were given a formatted word template (MLA, first page) during the first week of class. They were also given a formatted template for their bibliography page.

Stu who still submits assignments that do not conform to the formatting and other requirements is now complaining that nothing Stu does is good enough. Stu, use the templates. Stu apparently needs a babysitter to read the modules and assignments so that Stu can find the templates. Stu has also twice ignored peer reviews that addressed the formatting issues. Stu doesn't seem to be aware of the existence of the templates.

Time for a post-midterm warning.

Dumb question so I beg your indulgence.

Why do faculty stress so heavily on reference formatting conventions?  They are really only ever used in academic writing which few students will do after they graduate.  Those who go on to graduate school are presumably bright enough to learn the convention of their particular discipline and use it in their academic work.  Undergrads who may be taking courses across STEM, the liberal arts, the social sciences and the health sciences are often faced with having to figure out multiple reference formats in a single semester.

My response to this is that I prefer students to use NLM, but they can use any format they are comfortable with and mistakes in formatting will not be held against them as long as I can find the original citation with minimal effort.

This seems to lower students' blood pressure and I can generally figure out where their source material came from easily enough.  I'll leave it to their graduate advisors to sort out the rest.

This course, one of several sections, requires students to use either the MLA or APA formatting for their assignments. The requirement is stated in the syllabus and also announced on the first day of class. I give students formatted templates so that their blood pressure doesn't go up.

[Caracal]

Students worked together to answer a question on a low-stakes assignment. Their answer, conceptually, made no sense for the topic. Like, no idea what someone was thinking. The question was a simple reading comprehension that could be answered from the textbook. Well that all took a lot more of my time than it needed to given that it was a simple low stakes reading comprehension assignment. Sigh. It would have been easier if they had just skipped it or said I don't have the book.

What's the point of making that group work? I sometimes break students into groups, but its usually to discuss some short piece of reading or document and answer some conceptual questions on it that should require a bit of thought. Mostly, I'm just trying to break up the flow of class and create conditions in which some of the students who don't talk much in class will engage a bit.

It was an individual assignment outside of class time. Working on it together was not a good decision for multiple reasons. Though it did give me a relatively accurate signal that they collectively had not done the reading!

Oh I see, sorry I'd gotten confused. That is a terrible decision...Don't copy the homework from someone who hasn't done the reading...

[OneMoreYear]

No, just No! I am not offering attendance points in this class! Your grade is based on your ability to demonstrate the competencies described in the course objectives by completing and submitting the assignments by the deadlines indicated in the syllabus. If other instructor wants to offer you points because you signed into the LMS during classtime and were not disruptive, then so be it. I'm not in charge of their class.   

[Aster]

If other instructor wants to offer you points because you signed into the LMS during classtime and were not disruptive, then so be it. I'm not in charge of their class.

Heh. We're not even allowed to measure attendance that way anymore at my place. According to last year's federal financial aid reporting requirements, merely logging into a CMS does not qualify as attendance.

But oddly, if a student shows up to class in an actual classroom, then that's okay.

[the_geneticist]

If other instructor wants to offer you points because you signed into the LMS during classtime and were not disruptive, then so be it. I'm not in charge of their class.

Heh. We're not even allowed to measure attendance that way anymore at my place. According to last year's federal financial aid reporting requirements, merely logging into a CMS does not qualify as attendance.

But oddly, if a student shows up to class in an actual classroom, then that's okay.

I suppose just logging in to the LMS during class is the online equivalent of signing the attendance sheet and then leaving.  I'd expect a student to accomplish a task before I'd give any points.  Logging in or setting foot in the room is the first step, not the final goal.

[the_geneticist]

Sorry for the double-post.
Our transition to Canvas is making me bang my head in despair!

For whatever reasons, rather than updating immediately when a student registers, there is a lag so that students can't access Canvas until the day after they register.
And if a student changes sections, they are still listed in both sections.
And if a student drops the class, they are still listed as a user even though we're still in the "add, drop period".

So.
Many.
Emails.

"Help!  I registered but I can't see the class!"; "Help!  My class is meeting RIGHT NOW and I can't find it!"; "Help! I thought I changed sections, but I see both.  Which one do I go to?";  "Why am I getting emails?  I'm not in your class!"

Oh, and I have over 500 students in 20 class sections.  And another class with 150 students in 6 class sections.  I'm going to send them all an email saying "you need to tell me your user ID, the course name, and course section number in your emails.  I need to know WHO you are WHAT class you are taking to help you."

And the kicker?
I have to fill out a trouble ticket to fix each and every one of these issues.
Bang! Bang! Bang!

[teach_write_research]

We have a delay because the registration system needs to roll over that day's drop/adds to the LMS. I thankfully don't have that many students but I still keep a copy-paste of "Yes, that's normal. You should see your access update by tomorrow. It is fine and you will start on the first day you have access to the course."

Our drops don't get cleaned up from the LMS until after drop/add is over. It does make for a chaotic start to the term.

[FishProf]

Ours happen ever 6 hours (~ish) so there is a minor delay between registration and access.

That can be a problem for a student who belatedly registers TODAY for a class TONIGHT.

[Anon1787]

Sorry for the double-post.
Our transition to Canvas is making me bang my head in despair!

For whatever reasons, rather than updating immediately when a student registers, there is a lag so that students can't access Canvas until the day after they register.
And if a student changes sections, they are still listed in both sections.
And if a student drops the class, they are still listed as a user even though we're still in the "add, drop period".

So.
Many.
Emails.

"Help!  I registered but I can't see the class!"; "Help!  My class is meeting RIGHT NOW and I can't find it!"; "Help! I thought I changed sections, but I see both.  Which one do I go to?";  "Why am I getting emails?  I'm not in your class!"

Oh, and I have over 500 students in 20 class sections.  And another class with 150 students in 6 class sections.  I'm going to send them all an email saying "you need to tell me your user ID, the course name, and course section number in your emails.  I need to know WHO you are WHAT class you are taking to help you."

And the kicker?
I have to fill out a trouble ticket to fix each and every one of these issues.
Bang! Bang! Bang!

What about assigning the task to the small army of TAs that your university has undoubtedly put at your disposal?

[the_geneticist]

Sorry for the double-post.
Our transition to Canvas is making me bang my head in despair!

For whatever reasons, rather than updating immediately when a student registers, there is a lag so that students can't access Canvas until the day after they register.
And if a student changes sections, they are still listed in both sections.
And if a student drops the class, they are still listed as a user even though we're still in the "add, drop period".

So.
Many.
Emails.

"Help!  I registered but I can't see the class!"; "Help!  My class is meeting RIGHT NOW and I can't find it!"; "Help! I thought I changed sections, but I see both.  Which one do I go to?";  "Why am I getting emails?  I'm not in your class!"

Oh, and I have over 500 students in 20 class sections.  And another class with 150 students in 6 class sections.  I'm going to send them all an email saying "you need to tell me your user ID, the course name, and course section number in your emails.  I need to know WHO you are WHAT class you are taking to help you."

And the kicker?
I have to fill out a trouble ticket to fix each and every one of these issues.
Bang! Bang! Bang!

What about assigning the task to the small army of TAs that your university has undoubtedly put at your disposal?

I do have a small army of TAs who teach the lab sections and do the grading, but they do not have access to the necessary information or forms to handle registration issues. 

[teach_write_research]

A student who has not attended class or submitted work since early Feb, now has a couple recent small assignments submitted for me to grade and scheduled an appointment for this week. I think I'm just despairing at my capacity to be professional and calm about it. I'm still stuck on, WTF!? No! Why?! What did you think that constant string of 0s meant?? I know there could be all kinds of legitimate problems that created the situation, but there is no path to complete the course at this point and I am worn out from being patient and professional.

[arcturus]

Do not underestimate the need to fail a class properly to be eligible for financial aid. My school has a requirement that we record the last date of attendance for students who fail due to non-attendance. I once had a student submit no work other than taking the midterm and final (maximum total of 30% of the available points) and yet contact me to complain that he had internet problems while taking the final exam (which was online). Despite the fact that this student did not really attend my class at all (i.e., did not even attempt sufficient assignments to achieve a passing grade), I could not report him for non-attendance since he "attended" the final exam.