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Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

Started by the_geneticist, May 21, 2019, 08:49:54 AM

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OneMoreYear

Dear graduate students (yes, multiple),
That assignment has been on the syllabus since day 1 of this semester, with the required components spelled out in the syllabus.  I provided you with examples of the assignment. I gave you an opportunity to submit a draft for my feedback (Did you take me up on that? No?) Four weeks ago, I spent class time describing the assignment again, because so many of you were "confused."  Complaining that "I don't know what you want" means that you have ignored all of the above.  It is due next week. If you have not started the assignment, then, yes, you should be a little stressed. Frankly, if you don't know how to write a reasonable attempt as this assignment, you should not pass this class. Unfortunately, it is possible to pass this class if you fail this assignment--I will be remedying that next year.
Also, the TAs are on to you. They are not going to do it for you. I put the kabash on the type of "help" you were requesting.
See you at the final exam!
Dr. Year

.

darkstarrynight

Quote from: OneMoreYear on April 22, 2021, 07:02:03 PM
Dear graduate students (yes, multiple),
That assignment has been on the syllabus since day 1 of this semester, with the required components spelled out in the syllabus.  I provided you with examples of the assignment. I gave you an opportunity to submit a draft for my feedback (Did you take me up on that? No?) Four weeks ago, I spent class time describing the assignment again, because so many of you were "confused."  Complaining that "I don't know what you want" means that you have ignored all of the above.  It is due next week. If you have not started the assignment, then, yes, you should be a little stressed. Frankly, if you don't know how to write a reasonable attempt as this assignment, you should not pass this class. Unfortunately, it is possible to pass this class if you fail this assignment--I will be remedying that next year.
Also, the TAs are on to you. They are not going to do it for you. I put the kabash on the type of "help" you were requesting.
See you at the final exam!
Dr. Year

.

This resonates with me very much right now.

kaysixteen

Probably no mercy for grad students like this.   One might ask how they got into grad school, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and grad/ professional ed is one of those somewheres.

ergative

Quote from: kaysixteen on April 22, 2021, 10:07:00 PM
Probably no mercy for grad students like this.   One might ask how they got into grad school, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and grad/ professional ed is one of those somewheres.

My department is pretty choosy about accepting PhD students, but we can't even choose which master's students to admit, because that happens at the College level. Master's students are an enormous revenue source, so TPTB don't want to turn them away.

It is regularly the case that our advanced undergrads are far more capable and diligent than our master's students.

FishProf

Good Grief SENIORS!  Read the damn directions!

Instruction: Assignment for Mock Interviews:
1.   A current resume or CV
2.   A job description for the position sought
3.   A cover letter addressing the application.
4.   One letter of recommendation from a recent supervisor or professor.
5.   
Application components must be in PDF format and follow the naming convention of: [applicant's last name] – [name of document].   For example, a cover letter from Dwayne Johnson would be labeled: Johnson - Cover Letter.pdf.

Number of Students = 54
Number successful on 1st submission attempt: 44
Number not submitting ALL document: 4
Number not submitting in PDF: 6
Number leaving the brackets in the submitted file: 4
Number not submitting in PDF in 2nd attempt: 4
Number not including name in file submission: 3
Number not naming document in file submission:2

So ~ 20% of our graduating seniors would have failed at the very first step of job application.  When I have to report job placement success, can I normalize the results in light of this fact?
It's difficult to conclude what people really think when they reason from misinformation.

Istiblennius

We're multiple weeks into the term and missing student shows up to let me know they are ready to succeed in class, but are a little confused about where to start. Building a time machine would be a good start.

I use a grading contract and students are allowed to submit late work, although each number of weeks of late work drop them down a grade level, they also have to participate in weekly discussions and each week of missed discussions (with some grace built in) drops them down a grade level.

In addition to referencing that grading contract which identifies a C (the lowest passing grade for this class) as the best they can do at this point, I've mapped out a detailed list of all the work they must complete to even get to that point, including the project draft due next week with a reminder that I'm teaching the class again in Fall and the drop deadline is today and maybe they should focus on their personal burdens, which they cite in their email as the rationale for not coming to class.

Will they drop? No they will not.
Will there be more fun emails in my future? Yes there will.

apl68

Quote from: FishProf on April 23, 2021, 05:44:52 AM
Good Grief SENIORS!  Read the damn directions!

Instruction: Assignment for Mock Interviews:
1.   A current resume or CV
2.   A job description for the position sought
3.   A cover letter addressing the application.
4.   One letter of recommendation from a recent supervisor or professor.
5.   
Application components must be in PDF format and follow the naming convention of: [applicant's last name] – [name of document].   For example, a cover letter from Dwayne Johnson would be labeled: Johnson - Cover Letter.pdf.

Number of Students = 54
Number successful on 1st submission attempt: 44
Number not submitting ALL document: 4
Number not submitting in PDF: 6
Number leaving the brackets in the submitted file: 4
Number not submitting in PDF in 2nd attempt: 4
Number not including name in file submission: 3
Number not naming document in file submission:2

So ~ 20% of our graduating seniors would have failed at the very first step of job application.  When I have to report job placement success, can I normalize the results in light of this fact?

Well, at least they're getting a final chance to see what they're doing wrong before they start having to try it for real.
And you will cry out on that day because of the king you have chosen for yourselves, and the Lord will not hear you on that day.

marshwiggle

Quote from: Istiblennius on April 23, 2021, 07:34:49 AM
We're multiple weeks into the term and missing student shows up to let me know they are ready to succeed in class, but are a little confused about where to start. Building a time machine would be a good start.


I wonder if anyone has ever researched the idea of a "Virtual Sunk Cost Fallacy". So in a case like this, the person sees how long they have been "taking" a course as an investment, even if they haven't, in fact, done much of anything yet.
It takes so little to be above average.

Puget

Quote from: ergative on April 22, 2021, 11:07:58 PM
It is regularly the case that our advanced undergrads are far more capable and diligent than our master's students.

This is true for us as well, even though we do select our MA students and are reasonably selective about it, the best of our undergrads put many of the MA students to shame, and there is always at least one MA student who is a complete train reck every year-- I've got one in seminar now and it is an open question if she can squeeze through with the B- that is the lowest passing grade for grad students here.  That said, the best of the masters students are equal to our beginning PhD students, so there is a wide range.

"Never get separated from your lunch. Never get separated from your friends. Never climb up anything you can't climb down."
–Best Colorado Peak Hikes

the_geneticist

505 students in a class with a midterm exam.
501 took the exam
1 dropped the class
1 slept through the exam & emailed in a panic
1 claimed the exam was "invisible" and didn't take it (it was locked until the start time)
1 missing student who won't reply to emails

Honestly, that's kind of a victory, but still a bit annoying to mop up the outliers.

kiana

Quote from: the_geneticist on April 23, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
505 students in a class with a midterm exam.
501 took the exam
1 dropped the class
1 slept through the exam & emailed in a panic
1 claimed the exam was "invisible" and didn't take it (it was locked until the start time)
1 missing student who won't reply to emails

Honestly, that's kind of a victory, but still a bit annoying to mop up the outliers.

That's INCREDIBLY impressive. I see similar numbers missing it in a class of 20.

OneMoreYear

Quote from: kiana on April 23, 2021, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: the_geneticist on April 23, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
505 students in a class with a midterm exam.
501 took the exam
1 dropped the class
1 slept through the exam & emailed in a panic
1 claimed the exam was "invisible" and didn't take it (it was locked until the start time)
1 missing student who won't reply to emails

Honestly, that's kind of a victory, but still a bit annoying to mop up the outliers.

That's INCREDIBLY impressive. I see similar numbers missing it in a class of 20.

Agreed, you have only 1 ghost student in a class of 505?! What is this magic?

darkstarrynight

Quote from: marshwiggle on April 23, 2021, 07:54:29 AM
Quote from: Istiblennius on April 23, 2021, 07:34:49 AM
We're multiple weeks into the term and missing student shows up to let me know they are ready to succeed in class, but are a little confused about where to start. Building a time machine would be a good start.


I wonder if anyone has ever researched the idea of a "Virtual Sunk Cost Fallacy". So in a case like this, the person sees how long they have been "taking" a course as an investment, even if they haven't, in fact, done much of anything yet.

When I taught a first-year experience course, I use to ask my students if they would prepay for gas and drive off before filling their tank, or if they would buy a plane ticket and skip the flight. I tried to use those examples so they understand the "loss" of paying tuition and fees and then not trying to learn or participate in classes.

teach_write_research

Quote from: FishProf on April 23, 2021, 05:44:52 AM
Good Grief SENIORS!  Read the damn directions!

Instruction: Assignment for Mock Interviews:
1.   A current resume or CV
2.   A job description for the position sought
3.   A cover letter addressing the application.
4.   One letter of recommendation from a recent supervisor or professor.
5.   
Application components must be in PDF format and follow the naming convention of: [applicant's last name] – [name of document].   For example, a cover letter from Dwayne Johnson would be labeled: Johnson - Cover Letter.pdf.

Number of Students = 54
Number successful on 1st submission attempt: 44
Number not submitting ALL document: 4
Number not submitting in PDF: 6
Number leaving the brackets in the submitted file: 4
Number not submitting in PDF in 2nd attempt: 4
Number not including name in file submission: 3
Number not naming document in file submission:2

So ~ 20% of our graduating seniors would have failed at the very first step of job application.  When I have to report job placement success, can I normalize the results in light of this fact?

Perhaps follow up mock job apps with the students now being the employer and they are graded on following HR procedures. "Well team we had 54 applicants who opened the application but looks like we only have 54-n after we eliminate all of the incomplete and noncompliant applications." Then give a second chance to resubmit? That's the piece that will pretty much never exist in the work world.

There is a little search committee joy when you see an incomplete app and can trim down your workload (with regret that it might have been a great applicant). Maybe the role play will give them some practice with that perspective shift.

apl68

Quote from: teach_write_research on April 23, 2021, 01:56:53 PM
Quote from: FishProf on April 23, 2021, 05:44:52 AM
Good Grief SENIORS!  Read the damn directions!

Instruction: Assignment for Mock Interviews:
1.   A current resume or CV
2.   A job description for the position sought
3.   A cover letter addressing the application.
4.   One letter of recommendation from a recent supervisor or professor.
5.   
Application components must be in PDF format and follow the naming convention of: [applicant's last name] – [name of document].   For example, a cover letter from Dwayne Johnson would be labeled: Johnson - Cover Letter.pdf.

Number of Students = 54
Number successful on 1st submission attempt: 44
Number not submitting ALL document: 4
Number not submitting in PDF: 6
Number leaving the brackets in the submitted file: 4
Number not submitting in PDF in 2nd attempt: 4
Number not including name in file submission: 3
Number not naming document in file submission:2

So ~ 20% of our graduating seniors would have failed at the very first step of job application.  When I have to report job placement success, can I normalize the results in light of this fact?

Perhaps follow up mock job apps with the students now being the employer and they are graded on following HR procedures. "Well team we had 54 applicants who opened the application but looks like we only have 54-n after we eliminate all of the incomplete and noncompliant applications." Then give a second chance to resubmit? That's the piece that will pretty much never exist in the work world.

There is a little search committee joy when you see an incomplete app and can trim down your workload (with regret that it might have been a great applicant). Maybe the role play will give them some practice with that perspective shift.

I know that throwing out the complete no-hope applications is usually a quick way to cut our library's applicant pool down to size.  Unfortunately that sometimes leaves us with little to go with in the interview stage.

I once sent the head of our local vo-tech school an analysis of our fifty most recent applicants--their education levels, work experience, etc.  She told me that it helped to make the point that she had been making to community leaders about the need for more workforce development in our community.  Our local pool of potential employees is broad but very, very shallow.
And you will cry out on that day because of the king you have chosen for yourselves, and the Lord will not hear you on that day.