Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[AvidReader]

I love oral exams. They take longer to administer, but moments to grade.

AR.

How would you ever handle a grade appeal for one? That's my fear. If you have a fixed set of questions that you ask every student, there's the possibility of cheating by early students letting the questions out, but if you have different questions for different students it seems that would leave you wide open to charges of unfairness.

I don't think this is that much different than having a question bank that is larger than the number of questions being asked, as long as you can prove that you are not giving "easier" questions to your "favorite" students. (I've also never had a grade appeal, although I have sometimes recommended that dissatisfied students should appeal.) I'm in humanities.

I've done these a few different ways.

1. Students receive a list of essay-styled questions/topics. They prepare a presentation on one and deliver the presentation to me, after which point I ask questions about it (if I can rope a colleague in to also ask questions, this also cuts down on possible bias). They have a set list of required components (e.g. clear claim, X number of examples, or whatever I want to achieve). After the Q&A, I choose a separate question from the same list, and they have to answer that one impromptu, with slightly gentler requirements. (If observing and critiquing in tandem, colleague and I will discuss which second question would be most appropriate based on student's focus on Q1). I have sometimes drawn Q2 out of a hat, but prefer to choose the topic that is least similar to the original presentation. I suppose you could also have a list of related questions, e.g. if the student presents on option 1, you will ask about option 4.

2. Students have a wider choice of topics and present on one in front of the class. Again, there is a list of required components. After the presentation, classmates ask questions (these questions count towards the exam grade) and I ask questions at the end.

3. I have a set list of questions batched by type and ask one question from each batch, rotating the questions. Again, each answer should have certain components (e.g. an example from class, an example from a primary text, etc.).

For those three types, I have a rubric with the list of components and a pre-designated number of points for each element, so having an example from a primary source might earn 5 points, and a thoughtful explanation of that example could earn up to 15. I like these because I can ask clarifying questions that help them earn more points; if they can't answer the clarifying questions, I can note that when record the points earned per question. I'll also jot down their general answer (at least a keyword).

4. For more fact-driven classes (mostly languages, but some survey courses), I've done finals with set time frames but an open-ended number of points. I'll have a series of required questions (usually the hardest things we've covered) and they need to answer a certain number of those (my selection, but usually random). For a language class, this is usually a translation. If a student gets stuck, the student can earn partial points for clarifying questions ("even if you don't know what this word means, do you know what part of speech it is? Is it the subject or the direct object? Does it modify any other words?"). I can also provide a definition or part of speech (with an automatic deduction) that will then allow the student to puzzle out the rest of the sentence. If I ask the student to conjugate a verb to work out the correct pronoun or tense for a word, the student would earn points for that also. So the set translation might be worth 200 points if completed perfectly; the student might ask for 5 definitions and get a few tenses wrong, but the student might also conjugate a verb in several tenses and define a participle along the way, earning another (say) 30 points in the process. Assuming the student didn't have any errors on the additional questions, I would divide 230 (translation + additional explanations) by the number of points earned and make that the grade.

In all of these cases, I make and print a rubric with the required components or available points and fill it out for every student, and I save this just as I would save a final exam sheet.

AR.

[marshwiggle]

In all of these cases, I make and print a rubric with the required components or available points and fill it out for every student, and I save this just as I would save a final exam sheet.

AR.

That makes sense. You give a lot of direction as to what is expected; when I've heard other people talk about oral exams it sounded a lot more wide open.

[the_geneticist]

Students are taking their second midterm exam.  After catching so many cheaters on the first midterm, I sent out a stern warning about what they can and cannot use during the exam and to let them know that yes I do check and yes I do report folks.

And I just found a question from the 2nd exam on Chegg.com

Gah!  This class cannot end soon enough.  I am looking forward to being back in the lab and being grouchy about reminding students that their goggles have to be on their face, not on top of their heads.

[Aster]

And... somebody just tried to log into today's remote class session.

Except that class sessions ended over a week ago, the final exam ended last Friday, and the course officially shut down yesterday and was announced as such.

[marshwiggle]

And... somebody just tried to log into today's remote class session.

Except that class sessions ended over a week ago, the final exam ended last Friday, and the course officially shut down yesterday and was announced as such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umj0gu5nEGs

[kiana]

STOP fixating on nickel and diming your goddamn homework grade. START trying to study hard for the TEST. You know, the one that's 30% of your grade, that will determine if you pass or fail?

[Biologist_]

And... somebody just tried to log into today's remote class session.

Except that class sessions ended over a week ago, the final exam ended last Friday, and the course officially shut down yesterday and was announced as such.

I think students have a whole bunch of different zoom links to deal with and have trouble keeping them straight. I get email notifications* when someone logs into one of my Zoom sessions and have noticed that students often join on the wrong day of the week and/or the wrong time of day. But perhaps your class session is not on Zoom or there's something that makes it extra-peculiar...

I keep a list of Zoom links in a tab/document that's always open on my computer. I have to pay attention to make sure that I copy or click the right link from the list. If I'm sitting in office hours and no one shows up, I usually double-check that I'm in the right Zoom session.

(*I only see the notification if/when my email is open; I have all of the alerts turned off.)

[fishbrains]

STOP fixating on nickel and diming your goddamn homework grade. START trying to study hard for the TEST. You know, the one that's 30% of your grade, that will determine if you pass or fail?

Yes. And quite asking for extra credit when you haven't done the original f-ing credit.

[the_geneticist]

STOP fixating on nickel and diming your goddamn homework grade. START trying to study hard for the TEST. You know, the one that's 30% of your grade, that will determine if you pass or fail?

Yes. And quite asking for extra credit when you haven't done the original f-ing credit.

I know!

[OneMoreYear]

STOP fixating on nickel and diming your goddamn homework grade. START trying to study hard for the TEST. You know, the one that's 30% of your grade, that will determine if you pass or fail?

Yes. And quite asking for extra credit when you haven't done the original f-ing credit.

When I was working at a place where requests demands for extra credit were frequent and I got so tired of having the extra credit conversation, I put something my syllabus about extra credit, which said something like "Extra credit policy: Extra credit is designed for academic enrichment, If you have mastered the course material, as demonstrated by your performance on class assignments and exams, you may request to meet with me to discuss additional opportunities to go beyond the requirements of this course to further your knowledge about [course subject]."   I think I had exactly one student meet with me to actually discuss this version of extra credit--I later wrote a rec for them for grad school.

[darkstarrynight]

I came across a plagiarized paper while grading today. It sucks the energy out of me. Since our institution will not pay for plagiarism detection software, I did my own detective work through Internet searches. The paper consisted of completely copied material from at least eight articles and web sites that I could find (regarding content that had nothing to do with my assignment, of course). I referred it to the academic integrity office and gave the student a zero. This student is in my elective course, so hu might have to retake it since the zero knocked hu to a final grade of F, and the student also has to take my required course for the program eventually also. Sigh.

[FishProf]

Student talks can be painful.  Due to Covid restrictions, my seniors had to record their talks and upload them.  I would think students would re-record bad talks, but no.  They were mostly one-offs that were awful.

I just finished a 7 minute talk about Cryotherapy, which is apparently pronounced KREE-Oh-Therapy.

Ouch

[the_geneticist]

Student talks can be painful.  Due to Covid restrictions, my seniors had to record their talks and upload them.  I would think students would re-record bad talks, but no.  They were mostly one-offs that were awful.

I just finished a 7 minute talk about Cryotherapy, which is apparently pronounced KREE-Oh-Therapy.

Ouch

FishProf, get out of my life!  OK, I know we're at different places since you're on semesters and I'm on quarters, but I am moderating recorded undergraduate research talks.  I feel like a good mentor needs to teach students how to pronounce important words, like the scientific name of the critter they studied.

[apl68]

STOP fixating on nickel and diming your goddamn homework grade. START trying to study hard for the TEST. You know, the one that's 30% of your grade, that will determine if you pass or fail?

Yes. And quite asking for extra credit when you haven't done the original f-ing credit.

When I was working at a place where requests demands for extra credit were frequent and I got so tired of having the extra credit conversation, I put something my syllabus about extra credit, which said something like "Extra credit policy: Extra credit is designed for academic enrichment, If you have mastered the course material, as demonstrated by your performance on class assignments and exams, you may request to meet with me to discuss additional opportunities to go beyond the requirements of this course to further your knowledge about [course subject]."   I think I had exactly one student meet with me to actually discuss this version of extra credit--I later wrote a rec for them for grad school.

I guess I should have realized this by now, after all the references to it I've seen here--but it just now clicked with me that so many students see "extra credit" as an opportunity for a second chance to make up credit they've blown off, rather than the "enrichment opportunity" to go above and beyond that you're talking about.  I wonder when the latter transitioned into the former in student understanding?  Or is that pretty much how they've always seen "extra credit?"

[FishProf]

I've been telling students for 20 years (in my syllabus, so they probably never saw it) that: "What most students mean by EXTRA-CREDIT is, in fact, ALTERNATIVE CREDIT (i.e. points for doing something NOT part of the class to make up for not doing what IS part of the class).  In this course, there is no Alternative Credit.  Don't ask."

At one time, I did allow real Extra Credit.  I don't do that anymore.