Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[OneMoreYear]

Unrelated to the LMS discussion above.

Gah! A group of graduate students have completely bombed a quiz in a manner very similar to each other.  I now have to determine if the driver is a) they failed cheating; b) they have really poor foundational math skills (possible in this program, but usually not at this rate); c) they have really poor critical thinking skills (seriously, did those answers make a lick of sense?); or d) a combination of the above.  What in the Sam Hill is going on here?

[Hegemony]

I am teaching an online summer course that I have taught many times before. Each time is much the same, except that I try to sharpen the parts that work and pare back on the parts that don't. So in theory the course should be getting better and better. And it is a non-required course on a great subject, so everyone who enrolls wants to be there, which usually makes for a great, engaged group of students.

This pandemic summer, a few of the students are great and engaged. Many of the rest are falling apart. I have a policy where anyone who asks can turn in anything late without penalty. Nevertheless a lot of students are just failing to turn things in, and taking 0's for assignments. Four of them just stopped showing up — too late to drop — and are not responding to emails. Then I have a raft of students who are asking to turn things in late, and their emails sound as if they're just coming apart at the seams. "I just can't concentrate, I'm so sorry." I mean, not that I blame them. I feel much the same way. It's just a really noticeable difference from the usual experience.

[Caracal]

Unrelated to the LMS discussion above.

Gah! A group of graduate students have completely bombed a quiz in a manner very similar to each other.  I now have to determine if the driver is a) they failed cheating; b) they have really poor foundational math skills (possible in this program, but usually not at this rate); c) they have really poor critical thinking skills (seriously, did those answers make a lick of sense?); or d) a combination of the above.  What in the Sam Hill is going on here?

I suppose the main question is whether you've used similar question before without getting similar results. Even with essay exams, often when I swap in a new question, students screw up in very similar ways and I start wondering if there was some sort of collaboration, but they usually screw it up again in the same way next semester. There's just a way that a student who is half listening to class can misunderstand something and a different way a student who is taking a lot of notes but failing to actually think about the material can misunderstand something and it is remarkably consistent.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

Problem student emails me and asks if we need to turn in the prelab. Um, yes, that's what we've been doing since the semester started. Why would it be different this week? SMDH.

[Aster]

Gah! A group of graduate students have completely bombed a quiz in a manner very similar to each other.  I now have to determine if the driver is a) they failed cheating; b) they have really poor foundational math skills (possible in this program, but usually not at this rate); c) they have really poor critical thinking skills (seriously, did those answers make a lick of sense?); or d) a combination of the above.  What in the Sam Hill is going on here?

I am seeing signs of this also, in certain classes. Preliminary investigations are pointing towards two possible contributing factors.
1. Larger groups of students committing less numerical time into their weekly learning plans.
2. More students trying to cheat online but sucking at it.

[arcturus]

Dear Student -

The fact that you are asking these questions means that you did not watch the video that provides the answers to these questions. You also did not open the posted slides associated with that video that *also* contain the answers to these questions. Really, you must make some effort other than writing to the instructors asking what are the answers to these questions. Since we already give you the answers to these questions in video and pptx form, we are not going to write them in an email so you can copy and paste our words (i.e., complete sentences) into your document. This class is not that hard. Please try to do *something* on your own to earn a passing grade.

Prof I-am-not-going-to-have-students-plagiarise-my-words

[OneMoreYear]

Unrelated to the LMS discussion above.

Gah! A group of graduate students have completely bombed a quiz in a manner very similar to each other.  I now have to determine if the driver is a) they failed cheating; b) they have really poor foundational math skills (possible in this program, but usually not at this rate); c) they have really poor critical thinking skills (seriously, did those answers make a lick of sense?); or d) a combination of the above.  What in the Sam Hill is going on here?

I suppose the main question is whether you've used similar question before without getting similar results. Even with essay exams, often when I swap in a new question, students screw up in very similar ways and I start wondering if there was some sort of collaboration, but they usually screw it up again in the same way next semester. There's just a way that a student who is half listening to class can misunderstand something and a different way a student who is taking a lot of notes but failing to actually think about the material can misunderstand something and it is remarkably consistent.

Those are good points. Last year, no one messed it up this badly. Though I couldn't completely rule-out cheating, I made the assumptions of poor math/critical thinking skills, did a targeted concept review in class, called a mulligan, and allowed them to resubmit.   I'm following my general rule during COVID times--vent if needed (to colleagues and on the fora) but err on the side of grace.

[Aster]

Stu Dent: "Professor, I ordered the textbook through Amazon, but it said it won't be here until next week."

Me: "You can't order it from Amazon. It is a custom product only carried by our campus bookstore."

Stu Dent: "Well, I did it. I typed in the ISBN and ordered it. But it's not here yet. How can I do my work?"

Me: "Telling me about this now is too late. The book has been required for two weeks already. Cancel your Amazon order and go to the campus bookstore and buy the book there."


So I went on Amazon and typed in the ISBN (there's a section for it on Amazon). No result. This student either lied to me, or ordered something else that doesn't match the ISBN on the syllabus.

[kaysixteen]

You are probably right, but is there *no chance* that Amazon somehow has gotten a hold of this book, perhaps via a 3d party vendor selling used copies?

[Charlotte]

Gah! A group of graduate students have completely bombed a quiz in a manner very similar to each other.  I now have to determine if the driver is a) they failed cheating; b) they have really poor foundational math skills (possible in this program, but usually not at this rate); c) they have really poor critical thinking skills (seriously, did those answers make a lick of sense?); or d) a combination of the above.  What in the Sam Hill is going on here?

Graduate students? 😬

[the_geneticist]

Stu Dent: "Professor, I ordered the textbook through Amazon, but it said it won't be here until next week."

Me: "You can't order it from Amazon. It is a custom product only carried by our campus bookstore."

Stu Dent: "Well, I did it. I typed in the ISBN and ordered it. But it's not here yet. How can I do my work?"

Me: "Telling me about this now is too late. The book has been required for two weeks already. Cancel your Amazon order and go to the campus bookstore and buy the book there."


So I went on Amazon and typed in the ISBN (there's a section for it on Amazon). No result. This student either lied to me, or ordered something else that doesn't match the ISBN on the syllabus.

My money is on the student not wanting to admit they forgot to buy the book and they are lying.  The "waiting for Amazon" excuse might work in other classes so they tried it. 
Classic case of "you can't care more than they do".  You told them where to get the book.  It's on them to go buy it.

[smallcleanrat]

Stu Dent: "Professor, I ordered the textbook through Amazon, but it said it won't be here until next week."

Me: "You can't order it from Amazon. It is a custom product only carried by our campus bookstore."

Stu Dent: "Well, I did it. I typed in the ISBN and ordered it. But it's not here yet. How can I do my work?"

Me: "Telling me about this now is too late. The book has been required for two weeks already. Cancel your Amazon order and go to the campus bookstore and buy the book there."


So I went on Amazon and typed in the ISBN (there's a section for it on Amazon). No result. This student either lied to me, or ordered something else that doesn't match the ISBN on the syllabus.

Wonder what would happen if you asked for a screenshot of the Amazon page showing the book for sale. Or of their order confirmation.

[Aster]

You are probably right, but is there *no chance* that Amazon somehow has gotten a hold of this book, perhaps via a 3d party vendor selling used copies?

It's very remotely possible, but even in the unlikely event of that, the student would be running afoul of a *different* course policy. These are laboratory manual workbooks. The syllabus policy clearly states in giant letters that only new, unmarked books may be purchased. Previously owned, used books are not allowed.

[Aster]

Stu Dent: "Professor, I ordered the textbook through Amazon, but it said it won't be here until next week."

Me: "You can't order it from Amazon. It is a custom product only carried by our campus bookstore."

Stu Dent: "Well, I did it. I typed in the ISBN and ordered it. But it's not here yet. How can I do my work?"

Me: "Telling me about this now is too late. The book has been required for two weeks already. Cancel your Amazon order and go to the campus bookstore and buy the book there."


So I went on Amazon and typed in the ISBN (there's a section for it on Amazon). No result. This student either lied to me, or ordered something else that doesn't match the ISBN on the syllabus.

My money is on the student not wanting to admit they forgot to buy the book and they are lying. The "waiting for Amazon" excuse might work in other classes so they tried it. 
Classic case of "you can't care more than they do".  You told them where to get the book.  It's on them to go buy it.

Ha. That was what the bookstore manager said to me today.

[FishProf]

I have 3 students pulling the "Amazon won't have it in stock until...."

I know.  That's why the link I gave you was...
1) to the publisher,
2) who has it in stock,
3) for less than Amazon,
4) and it includes instant e-book access,
5) or you can buy the e-book only for about 2/3 of the book price.