Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[marshwiggle]

I don't think I've ever seen a situation like this first hand.  What I've seen has been would-be engineers (and other majors) failing because they simply lacked the self discipline and maturity to give their college work an honest effort.  It astonishes me how some students can just blow off an opportunity that another student would have dearly liked to have taken.

The irony is that high school is very bad training for bright students. Its emphasis on getting the masses through means that good students can cruise through with little effort, so the ones who could most benefit from higher education have been prevented from developing decent work habits. This is why cutting funding for gifted programs because they're "elitist" is shooting society in the foot, because those are the people whose contributions society desperately needs. Gifted programs actually help students develop good habits because they are at an appropriately challenging level.

[ergative]

I don't think I've ever seen a situation like this first hand.  What I've seen has been would-be engineers (and other majors) failing because they simply lacked the self discipline and maturity to give their college work an honest effort.  It astonishes me how some students can just blow off an opportunity that another student would have dearly liked to have taken.

The irony is that high school is very bad training for bright students. Its emphasis on getting the masses through means that good students can cruise through with little effort, so the ones who could most benefit from higher education have been prevented from developing decent work habits. This is why cutting funding for gifted programs because they're "elitist" is shooting society in the foot, because those are the people whose contributions society desperately needs. Gifted programs actually help students develop good habits because they are at an appropriately challenging level.

I dunno, I think that the people society needs changes wildly depending on circumstances. The UK really, really needs a bunch of truck drivers right now, for example, and during peak lockdown society needed a whole bunch of people to pack and deliver groceries. There's a discussion to be had about whether gifted programs should be preserved, to be sure, but I think that basing that discussion on the assumption that society 'needs' the students who test into that program more than it 'needs' the students who wouldn't qualify runs into problems.

[marshwiggle]

I don't think I've ever seen a situation like this first hand.  What I've seen has been would-be engineers (and other majors) failing because they simply lacked the self discipline and maturity to give their college work an honest effort.  It astonishes me how some students can just blow off an opportunity that another student would have dearly liked to have taken.

The irony is that high school is very bad training for bright students. Its emphasis on getting the masses through means that good students can cruise through with little effort, so the ones who could most benefit from higher education have been prevented from developing decent work habits. This is why cutting funding for gifted programs because they're "elitist" is shooting society in the foot, because those are the people whose contributions society desperately needs. Gifted programs actually help students develop good habits because they are at an appropriately challenging level.

I dunno, I think that the people society needs changes wildly depending on circumstances. The UK really, really needs a bunch of truck drivers right now, for example, and during peak lockdown society needed a whole bunch of people to pack and deliver groceries. There's a discussion to be had about whether gifted programs should be preserved, to be sure, but I think that basing that discussion on the assumption that society 'needs' the students who test into that program more than it 'needs' the students who wouldn't qualify runs into problems.

It's not that society need them more, so much as that society needs them to be able to achieve up to their potential (in the same way as truck drivers), but that school often undermines that. For the truck drivers, school mainly has to provide basic literacy and numeracy; the skills they'll need for employment will be learned on the job. For students who are suited to more intellectual pursuits, the jobs skills they will need are the kind that education should provide. If it doesn't, they will have a hard time overcoming that.

[arcturus]

I have scaffolded assignments related to the major project in my class to encourage students to spread the work over the entire semester, rather than cramming it in at the end, when they have major assignments also due in their other classes. However, this does not work effectively when students submit "I have not made any progress yet on my project because I had midterm exams in my other classes this week." as their mid-semester update. Yes, you may have had exams in your other classes *this week*, but it has been *four weeks* since your last check-in on the project. You have had plenty of time (and notice) to make at least some progress. What is the point of scaffolding if students don't do the work associated with it?

[Istiblennius]

I'm running into this as well, I give a series of low stakes assignments that are practice and build the skills and concepts needed to demonstrate understanding on our exams. For most students, if they have done the assignments, the exams are "surprisingly easy" because they have become familiar with what they need to do and have gotten feedback on misconceptions and common errors to help them improve. But I have a large group this term who seem to be putting off their assignment practice until the day of the exam, despite repeated reminders from me to spend about 30 minutes each day and do at least one practice assignment so you are on track.

[the_geneticist]

I'm running into this as well, I give a series of low stakes assignments that are practice and build the skills and concepts needed to demonstrate understanding on our exams. For most students, if they have done the assignments, the exams are "surprisingly easy" because they have become familiar with what they need to do and have gotten feedback on misconceptions and common errors to help them improve. But I have a large group this term who seem to be putting off their assignment practice until the day of the exam, despite repeated reminders from me to spend about 30 minutes each day and do at least one practice assignment so you are on track.

And this is why I am NOT a fan of "self-paced" classes.  Lots of students need the structure of regular due dates & deadlines to not fall behind.  Trying to cram all of it in at once is also a really ineffective way to learn.

[Caracal]

I have scaffolded assignments related to the major project in my class to encourage students to spread the work over the entire semester, rather than cramming it in at the end, when they have major assignments also due in their other classes. However, this does not work effectively when students submit "I have not made any progress yet on my project because I had midterm exams in my other classes this week." as their mid-semester update. Yes, you may have had exams in your other classes *this week*, but it has been *four weeks* since your last check-in on the project. You have had plenty of time (and notice) to make at least some progress. What is the point of scaffolding if students don't do the work associated with it?

That's why I usually try to make at least parts of the scaffolding full graded assignments. If students write a proposal or draft it usually counts for 5 percent of the overall grade or something. I'm pretty generous with the grading of these assignments, but it gets most students to make a good faith effort.

[FishProf]

It is unfortunately true that unless it has points attached, many students do not see it as worth doing.

[arcturus]

Oh, there are grades attached for the scaffolding. At percentage levels that are higher than the weekly assignments associated with my class. That does not mean that my students are doing the work, though.

[Aster]

Now that we're at the mid-point in the term and large numbers of students realize that they have no prayer of passing, I am receiving numerous requests to "help me pass".

Me: "How have you been doing on the practice tests?"
Stu Dent: "I didn't take them."

Every. Single. Time. This. Answer.

[the_geneticist]

I just had to tell a graduate TA that they should not just email all of their students the answers to the practice problems.
The answers are posted for the students, they need to take the initiative to try the practice problems first.
I think I need to sit down with this TA and say "you can't learn it for them". 

Yet another reason I do not share the exam questions with TAs before the exam.  You can't share what you don't know . . . .

[FishProf]

I gave a lecture today that wraps up the 1st half of the semester in advance of Friday's mid-term exam.  If I didn't know better, I would think I was lecturing to the wrong class as they seemed to not have heard of ANYTHING I was talking about.

It was akin to lecturing on how the Krebs cycle works and students asking "what's an atom?".

I literally beat my head on the desk in front of my class today.  They were amused.

The should, instead, be very afraid.

[dismalist]

I gave a lecture today that wraps up the 1st half of the semester in advance of Friday's mid-term exam.  If I didn't know better, I would think I was lecturing to the wrong class as they seemed to not have heard of ANYTHING I was talking about.

It was akin to lecturing on how the Krebs cycle works and students asking "what's an atom?".

I literally beat my head on the desk in front of my class today.  They were amused.

The should, instead, be very afraid.

Ages ago, when I started teaching, I had a review session, the last meeting before the final exam. The idea was to have the kids ask questions from the material over the semester. I got floored right away: Could you go over Lecture 1, please? Went on in this vein, with the more significant interspersal of questions such as: What's really important in Lecture 1, you know, like, for an exam?

Well, I did this only once or twice, and then stopped.

[Wahoo Redux]

We are entering our eighth week of the semester and Wow! I have one of my worst classes ever.  They are generally nice people but barely competent.  We keep going over...and over...and over...and over comma-splices...and every time we have to start from scratch.  I mean, our kids are not the best students, but this is worse even than the classes at my old rural CC.

Then I had to send an email because so many had flunked or were on the verge of flunking because of the attendance policy.  I offered a qualified amnesty for people who should now starting coming to class.  It worked somewhat...

This morning I see a young stranger peering at my over the top of his mask.  Had he made a mistake?  No, he sits through class.  As he stands up to leave I ask, "Excuse me, but are you in this class?"

He mumbles, "...yeah..."  Yup, there's his name on my roster. 

"You have missed the entire first seven weeks," I say.  "The withdrawal date is the end of the month.   You probably want to do that."

He sadly nods and mumbles, "...thank you..."

Argh!  What the heckfire!!!  Even the amnesty does not allow for missing literally half the semester.

So then a guest lecture in one of our grad classes.  These are also a pretty lackluster bunch, although we have a couple who are smart enough...kind'a...

It does not stop some of them from being rude.

Maybe we are still underwater with COVID, but...I want this semester over, over, over.

[FishProf]

Ages ago, when I started teaching, I had a review session, the last meeting before the final exam. The idea was to have the kids ask questions from the material over the semester. I got floored right away: Could you go over Lecture 1, please? Went on in this vein, with the more significant interspersal of questions such as: What's really important in Lecture 1, you know, like, for an exam?

Well, I did this only once or twice, and then stopped.

I have explicitly explained that they need to ask SPECIFIC questions at the review.  "Can you go over X" is not a specific question. 

Is THIS on the test?  Strictly verboten.