Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[Caracal]

Marshwiggle - you just made an inadvertent pun.

The student says he was arrested and towed for doing burnouts in the parking lot.  Maybe.

If I ever am allowed to know the truth, I'll pass it on.

Cool. Maybe I have psychic abilities I didn't know about.

Ha. That almost has to be true right? If the student did something worse they didn't want to tell you about, they would surely never make up such an embarrassing lie?

I still think the school suspending students from class over disciplinary issues is a stupid policy unless there are safety issues with allowing students to come to class or to be on campus.  I can't really see the argument for not letting someone come to classes if the school is fine with them hanging out on campus. Suspension should be for something like starting fires where there's reason to believe the student's presence in the building might be dangerous to everyone else. All a temporary suspension from classes is likely to do is keep this student from passing classes.

[FishProf]

Marshwiggle - you just made an inadvertent pun.

The student says he was arrested and towed for doing burnouts in the parking lot.  Maybe.

If I ever am allowed to know the truth, I'll pass it on.

Cool. Maybe I have psychic abilities I didn't know about.

Ha. That almost has to be true right? If the student did something worse they didn't want to tell you about, they would surely never make up such an embarrassing lie?

I still think the school suspending students from class over disciplinary issues is a stupid policy unless there are safety issues with allowing students to come to class or to be on campus.

Agreed.  But he IS banned from campus.  Today is the last class meeting and it is - PRESENTATIONS!

[marshwiggle]

Marshwiggle - you just made an inadvertent pun.

The student says he was arrested and towed for doing burnouts in the parking lot.  Maybe.

If I ever am allowed to know the truth, I'll pass it on.

Cool. Maybe I have psychic abilities I didn't know about.

Ha. That almost has to be true right? If the student did something worse they didn't want to tell you about, they would surely never make up such an embarrassing lie?

I still think the school suspending students from class over disciplinary issues is a stupid policy unless there are safety issues with allowing students to come to class or to be on campus.  I can't really see the argument for not letting someone come to classes if the school is fine with them hanging out on campus. Suspension should be for something like starting fires where there's reason to believe the student's presence in the building might be dangerous to everyone else. All a temporary suspension from classes is likely to do is keep this student from passing classes.

So what do you see as an alternative to suspension? Can the student continue with their studies and graduate without any sort of apology or punishment? The ability to suspend their studies is the only leverage an institution has unless criminal charges are laid.

[Caracal]

Marshwiggle - you just made an inadvertent pun.

The student says he was arrested and towed for doing burnouts in the parking lot.  Maybe.

If I ever am allowed to know the truth, I'll pass it on.

Cool. Maybe I have psychic abilities I didn't know about.

Ha. That almost has to be true right? If the student did something worse they didn't want to tell you about, they would surely never make up such an embarrassing lie?

I still think the school suspending students from class over disciplinary issues is a stupid policy unless there are safety issues with allowing students to come to class or to be on campus.  I can't really see the argument for not letting someone come to classes if the school is fine with them hanging out on campus. Suspension should be for something like starting fires where there's reason to believe the student's presence in the building might be dangerous to everyone else. All a temporary suspension from classes is likely to do is keep this student from passing classes.

So what do you see as an alternative to suspension? Can the student continue with their studies and graduate without any sort of apology or punishment? The ability to suspend their studies is the only leverage an institution has unless criminal charges are laid.

Oh, well I'd assume he couldn't graduate anyway if he just ignored the disciplinary process. Graduation is dependent on being in good standing right? I dunno, just as a matter of fair process, it doesn't seem right to impose a harsher penalty before adjudication then is likely to be imposed after. As a first offense, I would assume this isn't the kind of thing that would usually get a student expelled. Legally, it is also pretty unlikely to lead to jail time or even a felony conviction, unless there is more to it.

I suppose it comes down to how you classify something like this and the details. If this doofus was doing burners in an empty parking lot, that's stupid and potentially really dangerous. I don't really think it goes to the level where its reasonable to decide that his presence on campus is a safety risk. If it looked like a fast and furious movie with innocent bystanders running for cover that would be different...

[Caracal]

Marshwiggle - you just made an inadvertent pun.

The student says he was arrested and towed for doing burnouts in the parking lot.  Maybe.

If I ever am allowed to know the truth, I'll pass it on.

Cool. Maybe I have psychic abilities I didn't know about.

Ha. That almost has to be true right? If the student did something worse they didn't want to tell you about, they would surely never make up such an embarrassing lie?

I still think the school suspending students from class over disciplinary issues is a stupid policy unless there are safety issues with allowing students to come to class or to be on campus.

Agreed.  But he IS banned from campus.  Today is the last class meeting and it is - PRESENTATIONS!

Fun, so you're left to try to figure out how to deal with this?

[FishProf]

Yup.  We can't even get an answer to whether he can continue to do online work, like quizzes.

Nor do we know if "suspended" is grounds for an "incomplete"

[the_geneticist]

Marshwiggle - you just made an inadvertent pun.

The student says he was arrested and towed for doing burnouts in the parking lot.  Maybe.

If I ever am allowed to know the truth, I'll pass it on.

Cool. Maybe I have psychic abilities I didn't know about.

Ha. That almost has to be true right? If the student did something worse they didn't want to tell you about, they would surely never make up such an embarrassing lie?

I still think the school suspending students from class over disciplinary issues is a stupid policy unless there are safety issues with allowing students to come to class or to be on campus.

Agreed.  But he IS banned from campus.  Today is the last class meeting and it is - PRESENTATIONS!

Fun, so you're left to try to figure out how to deal with this?

There is the option for a student to present to you individually on Zoom.  I do that for students who were absent.  It's a win-win: prepared students do a great job and are super thankful for the opportunity, unprepared students don't bother to show up and I have documentation that they declined my offer of a second chance.

[marshwiggle]

So what do you see as an alternative to suspension? Can the student continue with their studies and graduate without any sort of apology or punishment? The ability to suspend their studies is the only leverage an institution has unless criminal charges are laid.

Oh, well I'd assume he couldn't graduate anyway if he just ignored the disciplinary process. Graduation is dependent on being in good standing right? I dunno, just as a matter of fair process, it doesn't seem right to impose a harsher penalty before adjudication then is likely to be imposed after. As a first offense, I would assume this isn't the kind of thing that would usually get a student expelled. Legally, it is also pretty unlikely to lead to jail time or even a felony conviction, unless there is more to it.

I suppose it comes down to how you classify something like this and the details. If this doofus was doing burners in an empty parking lot, that's stupid and potentially really dangerous. I don't really think it goes to the level where its reasonable to decide that his presence on campus is a safety risk. If it looked like a fast and furious movie with innocent bystanders running for cover that would be different...

The specific offense isn't really the issue; the question is whether an institution can impose any meaningful sanction for behaviour that doesn't count as criminal, short of expulsion. It's not clear that they have a lot of options. Precisely because suspension could torpedo the current academic term it provides significant leverage.  Anything that doesn't jeopardize academic standing isn't going to be very motivating.

[FishProf]

There is the option for a student to present to you individually on Zoom. 

It is not clear that IS an option.  I am awaiting a ruling on whether that is allowed.

Also, my final is an IN PERSON OFF SITE final.  Not replicable via Zoom.

[evil_physics_witchcraft]

When will students learn how to do BASIC Math? I try to make final grade calculation easy. All they have to do is add up their points and divide by 10. Is it really that hard to do? I even have an example...

[FishProf]

DON'T
[bang]
SPEND.
[bang]
THE FIRST HALF
[bang]
OF YOUR TALK
[bang]
WHEEDLING
[bang]
FOR
[bang]
MERCY.

There is none to be had.

[Puget]

Last day of class was yesterday. Student emails that she just noticed she had zeros for two lessons from much earlier in the semester, but she did them now so she should be all set, and sorry about that. I had to break it to her that these are due by the start of class each week and PER THE SYLLABUS there is no late credit. I had a syllabus quiz and everything. Sigh.

When will students learn how to do BASIC Math? I try to make final grade calculation easy. All they have to do is add up their points and divide by 10. Is it really that hard to do? I even have an example...

I feel your pain-- I recently had a student ask what percent they got on a returned exam, where the score was reported out of 50 points. Not sure if the problem was in multiplying the result by 2 or a basic understanding of percents.

[quasihumanist]

Last day of class was yesterday. Student emails that she just noticed she had zeros for two lessons from much earlier in the semester, but she did them now so she should be all set, and sorry about that. I had to break it to her that these are due by the start of class each week and PER THE SYLLABUS there is no late credit. I had a syllabus quiz and everything. Sigh.

When will students learn how to do BASIC Math? I try to make final grade calculation easy. All they have to do is add up their points and divide by 10. Is it really that hard to do? I even have an example...

I feel your pain-- I recently had a student ask what percent they got on a returned exam, where the score was reported out of 50 points. Not sure if the problem was in multiplying the result by 2 or a basic understanding of percents.

Or in realizing that dividing by 50 and then multiplying by 100 is the same as multiplying by 2.

[the_geneticist]

Last day of class was yesterday. Student emails that she just noticed she had zeros for two lessons from much earlier in the semester, but she did them now so she should be all set, and sorry about that. I had to break it to her that these are due by the start of class each week and PER THE SYLLABUS there is no late credit. I had a syllabus quiz and everything. Sigh.

I feel your pain on that one.  I have students beg to turn in their missed pre-lab assignments at the end of the term.  No.  The entire point of the pre-lab assignment is to get you prepared for lab that day.  It's in the syllabus.  I also have a syllabus quiz.
I suppose student optimism knows no bounds.

[FishProf]

Everything for the semester is due in 1.5 hours. 

Cue the panicked emails about needing extensions.

I checked one such request.  Reading quizzes attempted 1of21, Lecture quizzes 10f22, Video Quizzes 0of18.

Yeah.  You can't salvage this at the 11th hour.