Question about how university staff should address professors?

[present_mirth]

We have a lot of staff who call faculty by titles, and I HATE it. It makes me feel deeply uncomfortable, particularly when it comes from African-American staff. I really, really do not want to be addressed as "Dr. Mirth" by anyone other than a student or former student. Ever. (Well, OK, getting "Congratulations, Dr. Mirth" from my committee after my dissertation defense was nice, but other than that...)

There are also faculty in my department who address other faculty by titles when a student is present, even though they would naturally use first names at any other time. I understand why they do it, but to me it feels both incredibly artificial and condescending to the student.

Apparently I have really strong pent-up feelings about this. Huh.

[aside]

If staff call me by my first name, fine.  If they call me "Dr." or by my administrative title, fine.  If there are students within earshot, they generally choose the latter option.

[kaysixteen]

Hmmm...,random thoughts and questions:
1.  Here in the US, has this changed in the last say 35 to 50 years?
2.  What us standard practice in the U.K.?  Canada?  I'm guessing that in these countries it's at least still far less likely to be acceptable for students, even grad students, to ever address faculty by their first names, something I as a grad student at a northeastern state uni in the 90s only ever did with a few 30 something profs who insisted.
3. In many business contexts it is indeed normative for their to be a distinction between salaried management and clock-punchers, the latter of which are expected to call management by titles and be addressed by first names, though thus is fading rapidly, almost the same way male staff can mostly now dispense with ties.

[marshwiggle]

Hmmm...,random thoughts and questions:
1.  Here in the US, has this changed in the last say 35 to 50 years?
2.  What us standard practice in the U.K.?  Canada?  I'm guessing that in these countries it's at least still far less likely to be acceptable for students, even grad students, to ever address faculty by their first names, something I as a grad student at a northeastern state uni in the 90s only ever did with a few 30 something profs who insisted.

In Canada, in most of my travels, mostly staff, faculty, and grad students use first names. Some faculty also have undergrads refer to them by their first names. As others have indicated, when referring to faculty members while talking to students, it's typical to refer to the faculty as "Dr." or "Professor".

[bio-nonymous]

I am a basic scientist by trade, but am now faculty in a professional school medical department. To each other we are supposed to always say "Dr. So and SO" when ever there are students around, and the students are required to always say "Dr. So an SO" when others are around. In your own lab or lab meetings you can do whatever you want. This has been very tough for me, because where I was trained there was always a much looser formality and most everyone referred to everyone else by their first names. I think this is a norm that depends on both context and location (local culture). When it is just staff and faculty together we revert to first name basis (usually).

[scamp]

2.  What us standard practice in the U.K.?  Canada?  I'm guessing that in these countries it's at least still far less likely to be acceptable for students, even grad students, to ever address faculty by their first names, something I as a grad student at a northeastern state uni in the 90s only ever did with a few 30 something profs who insisted.

Everyone was on a first name basis at my UK uni. Maybe at Oxbridge this is different, but it was much less formal there than in the US.

[Wahoo Redux]

It don't know if I am at the center of some cosmic rhetorical vortex associated with this thread or not, but two students this semester from two different classes, one today, randomly approached me and said, "You have a Ph.D.?!" 

They both asked me why I didn't correct students when they called me "Mr. Wahoo" instead of "Dr. Wahoo."

I told them that "I prefer students call me by my first name, GrayworlfninjaVanHalen; we're all adults here; this is not high school"; and that students apparently felt comfortable calling me by my first name when I was a younger graduate student and even as a younger instructor...but then I crested 40 and suddenly I became "Mr. Wahoo."  Students were simply not comfy being on a first-name-basis with an older fella.

One of the reasons I prefer non-trads is that they are not intimidated by age or degree, actually prefer to call me by my first name, and we can all be adults together.

[craftyprof]

Because I taught business, I was cool with students calling me whatever they were comfortable with. Business is on a first-name basis, but some of the younger students preferred Mrs or Professor or Doctor.

Mrs. is the only one I make a point to correct.

[secundem_artem]

I am a basic scientist by trade, but am now faculty in a professional school medical department. To each other we are supposed to always say "Dr. So and SO" when ever there are students around, and the students are required to always say "Dr. So an SO" when others are around. In your own lab or lab meetings you can do whatever you want. This has been very tough for me, because where I was trained there was always a much looser formality and most everyone referred to everyone else by their first names. I think this is a norm that depends on both context and location (local culture). When it is just staff and faculty together we revert to first name basis (usually).

I do a bit of informal work with medical students and faculty and I swear, every 3rd word uttered is "Doctor" - no matter from students, staff or probably the UPS driver. 

In my own college, I prefer Doctor with students if only to create a bit of distance between myself and the people I am supposed to evaluate.  Other than that, first names are nearly universal in my college.

As I've long said, the only advantage to being called Doctor is that you can get a Happy Meal at McDonalds for about 5 bucks. 

[ciao_yall]

Because I taught business, I was cool with students calling me whatever they were comfortable with. Business is on a first-name basis, but some of the younger students preferred Mrs or Professor or Doctor.

Mrs. is the only one I make a point to correct.

Given that I took my husband's last name, Mrs. is fine by me. A bit retro, one supposes?

"Doctor" feels a bit overblown since I'm not an MD or even a PhD.

[waterboy]

I keep it to "Dr" for the first undergrad class after which they can just call me by my first name. The staff always call me by my first name and I really don't see any reason to do otherwise. We're all adults and it helps give a casual and friendly working relationship.  And, after all, I'm still not entirely convinced I earned that "Dr." anyway.  :)

[Caracal]

We have a lot of staff who call faculty by titles, and I HATE it. It makes me feel deeply uncomfortable, particularly when it comes from African-American staff. I really, really do not want to be addressed as "Dr. Mirth" by anyone other than a student or former student. Ever. (Well, OK, getting "Congratulations, Dr. Mirth" from my committee after my dissertation defense was nice, but other than that...)

There are also faculty in my department who address other faculty by titles when a student is present, even though they would naturally use first names at any other time. I understand why they do it, but to me it feels both incredibly artificial and condescending to the student.

Apparently I have really strong pent-up feelings about this. Huh.

I know what you mean. The titles themselves are fine, but the idea of telling anyone to refer to me by a title makes me very uncomfortable. I write Dr. Caracal on the top of my syllabus, but I never tell anyone to refer to me that way. I can't imagine saying at the beginning of the semester "I'm Dr. Caracal." I sign my initials in emails to students for the same reason. Occasionally, this results in confused students writing replies that start "Dear ABC." I wouldn't have any problem with students calling me by my first name if that was the norm, but given that it is not, the idea of telling students to call me by my first name also makes me cringe. So, yeah, I have issues too, I guess.

[mahagonny]

I have nothing close to PhD. I have relatives who are PhD and I enjoy, now and then, addressing them as 'doctor' as a gesture of respect. I expect they are proud of their training and perseverance. I would be.
Flip side: not all training and positively life-transforming experiences and successful trials bring a title. But they all mean a lot to the person who has earned and experienced them as they should. That should be the focus.
A friend of mine told me about his first week in the US Army. The sergeant said 'raise your hand if you're a college graduate.' Then he said 'great. Thank you! You folks will take the first turn on KP duty.'
Not matter what you achieve, you never stop being Bob, Jim or Jane. What's all the fuss?

[polly_mer]

Not matter what you achieve, you never stop being Bob, Jim or Jane. What's all the fuss?

Sometimes, the distinction matters because of one's place in the hierarchy.  People who are uncertain of their authority tend to choose the worst aspects of both situations.  I have several people in my current chain of command who insist on being called Bobby/Jimmy/Janey because we're all peers and yet will pull rank mid-conversation because it's convenient for them.

It's true that sometimes one's degrees and other expertise matters and something they don't.  It's also true that sometimes one has the responsibility to be an authority figure to support the other authority figures in the hierarchy.  Students have a lower place in the hierarchy than faculty.  Staff, though, do not.

[mahagonny]

It's all more complex as less linear than the military. You can't call you superior by first name in the army, but you could become that superior one day and get the same deference.
How should a tenured professor with only EdD address a PhD adjunct?
Military has a bottom rung of the ladder, but at least everyone is on the ladder.

the-tenure-track-prof: good luck in your tenure bid.