Students say I have an annoying voice

[mahagonny]

Another vote for asking a trusted colleague to record you - or record a video lecture for students and (the horror!) watch the playback.  I have a dry sense of humor and resting b**** face.  In normal conversation, my personality comes through and these traits have served me just fine.

Watching back a recording, I realized that what felt like over-the-top cheerleader-level excitement to me read as fairly ordinary enthusiasm on the video.  The whole experience with the video was awkward and terrible, but it helped me to see I need to be me but bigger when I teach.

It's like acting for the screen vs the stage, but without the acting part.  It's possible that your perfectly wonderful for the screen/conversation voice is not projecting well for the stage/classroom and you need to consider amplification or some of the voice modulation techniques suggested up thread.  It's also possible that students are thoughtless and needlessly unkind sometimes.

It's also possible they are tormenting you on purpose.

[fourhats]

Years ago we interviewed a job candidate who spoke extremely rapidly and whose diction was poor; even though she was a native speaker, people had a really hard time understanding her and worried about how that would affect her teaching. Since I knew the dissertation director personally, I let her know the problem. It surprised her director that I was so honest, but she thanked me and passed on the information and presumably talked to her about it. The candidate went on to have a great career elsewhere. I had debated long and hard whether to say something.

[Morris Zapp]

I spent the weekend making some recordings and listening and reading way too much.  I think the issue is actually something called "prosody" but what's worrying is that I"m on the spectrum, as are two of my kids.  We all talk a little bit like the kid on Young Sheldon.  I can maybe fix the over-enunciation thing, but the medical journals that I read (I went way too in-depth) talk about how people on the spectrum often accentuate the wrong words in the sentence and also don't know how to do this thing where you make the word you're stressing slightly longer than other words.  The problem is that apparently, all this stuff is natural for the rest of your neurotypicals and you kind of acquire it naturally growing up, and I'm not even sure that it could be taught.  And the stuff that suggests that maybe people on the spectrum are actually using different circuits in their brains to acquire feedback from their audience as they are speaking?  It seems to suggest that not all of this could actually be fixable.  That's why the Youtube tutorials didn't really seem to be addressing what I wanted to know.

I taught a visiting professor gig where I got a bunch of evals from what I"m pretty sure a specific group of girls who clearly all knew each other and had chatted amongst themselves about the weird professor and her weird voice ("I know, right? She's annoying AF.")
So yeah, some of it is just people being mean -- but some of it is probably valid.  But if you don't like the way that people on the spectrum talk, perhaps that's your issue?

The journal articles also said that Asperger folks have either a much smaller (monotone) or much larger vocal range that they use in producing sentences, etc.  I think my voice probably goes up higher than other people's when I"m emphasizing stuff.  I might continue to practice making videos and seeing if I can fix it, but it seems like one of those things that would take either so much practice or so much concentration that it would be really hard to also focus on the fairly abstract content of most of my presentations.

For me, the major issue is that I've talked with headhunters about more high profile jobs (head of a center on campus, etc.) and I'm afraid that this is the kind of stuff that wouldn't let me make the necessary impression, regardless of my research, etc.  Thinking maybe I should just write another book instead.

[dr_codex]

But if you don't like the way that people on the spectrum talk, perhaps that's your issue?

Yes.

For me, the major issue is that I've talked with headhunters about more high profile jobs (head of a center on campus, etc.) and I'm afraid that this is the kind of stuff that wouldn't let me make the necessary impression, regardless of my research, etc.  Thinking maybe I should just write another book instead.

Unless you are applying for an actual acting job, or something similar that requires particular vocal skills (broadcasting, audio book reading, etc.), employers have no business criticizing your speech patterns. If it isn't an employment violation, it should be.

[downer]

It is a surprisingly complicated issue. It is easy to agree that skin color is irrelevant to job assessment, and for the most part a person's looks are irrelevant too. It does seem that voice is more closely connected with the delivery of info and in interacting. Definitely people can have strong reactions to voices. But a lot of that reaction is to do with ethnicity, gender, class, and region of origin. Some parts of vocal delivery can be controlled, and others can't, at least not without extensive practice.

I used to record my lectures in audio and upload them for students who missed classes, so I would listen to my voice quite a lot. I found it pretty annoying sometimes. But when I'm in the moment, responding to dialog and focusing on the material, it is hard to focus on my voice. I tend to swallow my words sometimes, and I do have to work on articulating them.

It seems smart to do what you can to adjust your voice to make it as clear as possible, and maybe it is worth working on changing it if that could help your career. It is common for people to change their accents if they know that others will judge them for it.

But it's another thing for other people to expect you to change your voice because they don't like it, or even for them to say that they don't like your voice. Then the best response is to tell them to go F themselves.

[teach_write_research]

I spent the weekend making some recordings and listening and reading way too much.  I think the issue is actually something called "prosody" but what's worrying is that I"m on the spectrum, as are two of my kids. 

<snip>

That is super awesome! What useful information you found about voice characteristics and use.

The social immaturity in the students you mentioned from the VAP job, not awesome.

On some campuses this could be something you totally own and are open about with students in terms of how you use your voice, what you're working on, and managing their expectations. Neurodiversity is important. On other campuses, like that VAP experience, I could see this leading to more negativity or confusion which would not be helpful. The accommodations person on campus might have some advice, and possibly HR/dean if this could be viewed as an ADA issue for your review process. In other words, this shouldn't be just your problem to solve.

[ciao_yall]

I spent the weekend making some recordings and listening and reading way too much.  I think the issue is actually something called "prosody" but what's worrying is that I"m on the spectrum, as are two of my kids.  We all talk a little bit like the kid on Young Sheldon.  I can maybe fix the over-enunciation thing, but the medical journals that I read (I went way too in-depth) talk about how people on the spectrum often accentuate the wrong words in the sentence and also don't know how to do this thing where you make the word you're stressing slightly longer than other words.  The problem is that apparently, all this stuff is natural for the rest of your neurotypicals and you kind of acquire it naturally growing up, and I'm not even sure that it could be taught.  And the stuff that suggests that maybe people on the spectrum are actually using different circuits in their brains to acquire feedback from their audience as they are speaking?  It seems to suggest that not all of this could actually be fixable.  That's why the Youtube tutorials didn't really seem to be addressing what I wanted to know.

I taught a visiting professor gig where I got a bunch of evals from what I"m pretty sure a specific group of girls who clearly all knew each other and had chatted amongst themselves about the weird professor and her weird voice ("I know, right? She's annoying AF.")
So yeah, some of it is just people being mean -- but some of it is probably valid.  But if you don't like the way that people on the spectrum talk, perhaps that's your issue?

The journal articles also said that Asperger folks have either a much smaller (monotone) or much larger vocal range that they use in producing sentences, etc.  I think my voice probably goes up higher than other people's when I"m emphasizing stuff.  I might continue to practice making videos and seeing if I can fix it, but it seems like one of those things that would take either so much practice or so much concentration that it would be really hard to also focus on the fairly abstract content of most of my presentations.

For me, the major issue is that I've talked with headhunters about more high profile jobs (head of a center on campus, etc.) and I'm afraid that this is the kind of stuff that wouldn't let me make the necessary impression, regardless of my research, etc.  Thinking maybe I should just write another book instead.

I admire how much you looked into it. We are all a bit self-conscious about our own voices so I hope that makes you dial down your self-criticism a bit.

Honestly, if you have good working relationships and can make yourself understood, it sounds as though your voice is just fine.

I had a prof whose voice I hated because he lisped, but I realized his lisp wasn't as annoying as what a pompous idiot he was.

[mamselle]

Do they give any hints as to what they purport to object to?  How do they phrase it?

I have a friend who's always getting objections to her voice in her evaluations.  On the one hand, objecting to an instructor's voice is trivial and ridiculous, and especially objectionable when leveled at women, as if women are not "performing" well enough.  On the other hand, I get what the students mean, because I also find my friend's voice troublesome.  She speaks in a high-pitched little-girl voice, like someone on "Saturday Night Live" trying to imitate a four-year-old.  She has some of the wording of that persona too — it occasionally verges on baby-talk. I get why she probably does this — undoubtedly it makes her seem less threatening, and women are pressured to appear unthreatening.  But I have to say it is indeed very distinctive and noticeable.  This experience of students mentioning something real is the only thing that makes me think that students' complaints about voices shouldn't automatically be dismissed out of hand.  But if none of your colleagues can tell why the students are making a fuss, then it's probably a peculiar student thing and can be ignored, with a private roll of the eyes.

Correcting nasal placement and exploring the deeper resonances of vowels would address the childish sound. She's isolating her chest and head voices and not integrating them.

Doing that work would require a willingness to exchange a deeper sense of self, as expressed vocally, for the (probably) "cute little kid" sense of self that was reinforced at some time or place in this women's life.

One can start at either end to address the issues--music therapy or psychodrama might be effective since the performative vocal dimension is involved.

But it is possible to shift such behaviours into a new key, if the individual can see they're not just giving up a part of themselves, but exchanging it for something with the potential to help them grow, mature, and express themselves in a more satisfying way.

Nasal placement is really hard on the throat, too, so going at it from that direction is another option.

M.

[Hibush]

Do they give any hints as to what they purport to object to?  How do they phrase it?

I have a friend who's always getting objections to her voice in her evaluations.  On the one hand, objecting to an instructor's voice is trivial and ridiculous, and especially objectionable when leveled at women, as if women are not "performing" well enough.  On the other hand, I get what the students mean, because I also find my friend's voice troublesome.  She speaks in a high-pitched little-girl voice, like someone on "Saturday Night Live" trying to imitate a four-year-old.  She has some of the wording of that persona too — it occasionally verges on baby-talk. I get why she probably does this — undoubtedly it makes her seem less threatening, and women are pressured to appear unthreatening.  But I have to say it is indeed very distinctive and noticeable.  This experience of students mentioning something real is the only thing that makes me think that students' complaints about voices shouldn't automatically be dismissed out of hand.  But if none of your colleagues can tell why the students are making a fuss, then it's probably a peculiar student thing and can be ignored, with a private roll of the eyes.

Correcting nasal placement and exploring the deeper resonances of vowels would address the childish sound. She's isolating her chest and head voices and not integrating them.

Doing that work would require a willingness to exchange a deeper sense of self, as expressed vocally, for the (probably) "cute little kid" sense of self that was reinforced at some time or place in this women's life.

One can start at either end to address the issues--music therapy or psychodrama might be effective since the performative vocal dimension is involved.

But it is possible to shift such behaviours into a new key, if the individual can see they're not just giving up a part of themselves, but exchanging it for something with the potential to help them grow, mature, and express themselves in a more satisfying way.

Nasal placement is really hard on the throat, too, so going at it from that direction is another option.

M.

Very insightful and helpful for many more than the OP. Even those who strive to avoid psychodrama and are unsuccessful at making music.

[Caracal]

I spent the weekend making some recordings and listening and reading way too much.  I think the issue is actually something called "prosody" but what's worrying is that I"m on the spectrum, as are two of my kids.  We all talk a little bit like the kid on Young Sheldon.  I can maybe fix the over-enunciation thing, but the medical journals that I read (I went way too in-depth) talk about how people on the spectrum often accentuate the wrong words in the sentence and also don't know how to do this thing where you make the word you're stressing slightly longer than other words.  The problem is that apparently, all this stuff is natural for the rest of your neurotypicals and you kind of acquire it naturally growing up, and I'm not even sure that it could be taught.  And the stuff that suggests that maybe people on the spectrum are actually using different circuits in their brains to acquire feedback from their audience as they are speaking?  It seems to suggest that not all of this could actually be fixable.  That's why the Youtube tutorials didn't really seem to be addressing what I wanted to know.

I taught a visiting professor gig where I got a bunch of evals from what I"m pretty sure a specific group of girls who clearly all knew each other and had chatted amongst themselves about the weird professor and her weird voice ("I know, right? She's annoying AF.")
So yeah, some of it is just people being mean -- but some of it is probably valid.  But if you don't like the way that people on the spectrum talk, perhaps that's your issue?

The journal articles also said that Asperger folks have either a much smaller (monotone) or much larger vocal range that they use in producing sentences, etc.  I think my voice probably goes up higher than other people's when I"m emphasizing stuff.  I might continue to practice making videos and seeing if I can fix it, but it seems like one of those things that would take either so much practice or so much concentration that it would be really hard to also focus on the fairly abstract content of most of my presentations.

For me, the major issue is that I've talked with headhunters about more high profile jobs (head of a center on campus, etc.) and I'm afraid that this is the kind of stuff that wouldn't let me make the necessary impression, regardless of my research, etc.  Thinking maybe I should just write another book instead.

I admire how much you looked into it. We are all a bit self-conscious about our own voices so I hope that makes you dial down your self-criticism a bit.

Honestly, if you have good working relationships and can make yourself understood, it sounds as though your voice is just fine.

I had a prof whose voice I hated because he lisped, but I realized his lisp wasn't as annoying as what a pompous idiot he was.

Yeah, if you like someone, these sorts of things are just charming eccentricities, if you don't like them, you start focusing on it. I had a student write once that I said "um" 39 times in a class, and added that he counted. Students can be jerks, but if you want to sympathize a bit, they are stuck with us for the semester. It is a long enough period to really cultivate some animosity if you don't like the professor or their learning style. At the same time, it is short enough that you don't have to make peace with it, or figure out a way out of the situation, as most people would if they didn't like a boss or coworker at a job.

[Aster]

"Oh no the professor did not provide an entertainment service to me. She's so BORING."

Barf. I can directly correlate the "monotone voice" complaint with high accuracy to a specific student demographic. It's almost always the middle/low-performance group in the high-F/D/low-C range that bothers enough to mostly come to class, but doesn't bother enough to actually *do* any work in class. They just sit there doodling with their phones or taking a snooze. Poor engagement often results in poor academic performance, resulting in negative attitudes. These students then shift the blame of their own poor performance onto professors by blaming those professors for being too "boring-sounding". Whatever that means.

I nipped this issue (mostly) in the bud several years ago by requiring everybody to perform active-note taking, tossing in some embedded assessments, and keeping lecturing strictly focused on assessable content. I eliminated all of the "prosidy"  that I could identify. Heck in some classes I basically eliminated talking beyond giving out basic instructions for work, like in a semi-inverted teaching model.  My classroom environment is no longer an entertainment venue for the poorly motivated to whine and cry.

[Ruralguy]

Someone will always think lectures are boring, activities are time fillers, self-teaching is for teachers who can't teach, blah blah blah. Just find a path to what works. I am sure colleagues at your school and in your field could give reasonable advice.

This isn't meant to be "anti-flip" or anti-any-particular thing. Its just that some students will always find a way to be critical, and some personalities tend to be more rewarded than others, especially by 20 year olds.

[Juvenal]

In-class affect is not trivial, and one's voice patterns and quirks are not irrelevant.

Point in fact: I had to sit in on a colleague's lab/lecture [methods were new to me] and every statement was ended with "Okay?"  In five minutes I was cringing about what was next to be said.  If I cringe, well...  Do the students have a greater tolerance?  I doubt it. 

Then there's the colleague whose lecture door I occasionally pass and always hear an almost constant irritating (maybe I vex easily?) laugh.  Then there are those in a seminar who preface/end each statement with an "Um."  Yes, yes, these are all so human.  And all so fixable IF they know they exist and want to do something about them. But do they?  Dunno.  Should they?  Certainly. 

Teaching at its best is all about communicating without verbal static.  Yes, yes, probably I have something that irks the student in my speaking, but... I do pay some attention to just what I'm saying and how.  Why not for all?  But I can hardly call out a colleague for being a pebble in the audible shoe when speaking.  Can't I?

[mahagonny]

Lately I insert a brief interlude or two during each lecture to pose a few easy questions to the group, questions that I expect have enough hooks that they will bite one of them. That way the students have time to listen to each other, and be listened to, so that I'm not the only annoying person in the room. Everyone should get their turn. It gives one perspective.

Seriously, I get tired of hearing my voice, so I think they need a break too.

[fourhats]

I had a student write once that I said "um" 39 times in a class, and added that he counted.

I once recorded an interview I did with a faculty member, and later sent him the recording. He was appalled at how often he said "um"--generally multiple times in a sentence. He said he'd never noticed that he did it, but that it would be really annoying to listeners. He made a conscious effort to avoid doing it so much, and acknowledged that he used it as a sound filler while he was thinking what to say next.

It's easy to discount what students say about voices and vocal (and other) mannerisms, but the fact is that they are on the receiving end of things that we may not even notice we're doing. Rather than automatically dismissing what they say, it can be a good idea to think of ways to improve how what we have to say gets across to them. Obviously if it's something that we can't change, it's irrelevant. But if it's something we can change, it's worth considering.