Did you student buy the paper onine/hire someone else to write it?

[Aster]

Our institution is seeing a lot more bespoke papers (and other assignments) now. It's remarkably cheap, and you can include the specific assignment instructions, instructor preferences, etc. in your request. For one of the many sites out there, see
https://www.reddit.com/r/PaperMarket/

I feel that an actively refreshed feed from this and similar websites would do well to be placed on many college jumbo televisions. Best places to run the feed.
- Registration Offices (where the general public can see it)
- Senior Administration Offices (where the people that control grade appeals, academic dishonesty enforcement, and plagiarism detection software funding can see it)
- Writing Center (so the writing specialists can point to it as an example of terrible things to do)
- Governor's and Board of Education Offices (so they can see what modern education faces every day)

[Caracal]

Those of you arguing that you don't care about plagiarism must have institutional policies very different from mine. I'm obliged to report violations of academic honest.

I'm obliged to do it too, and I didn't say I didn't care about plagiarism, nor that I don't investigate it when I suspect it, or report it when I find it. I was merely making a point about priorities and being fair to students. The oral defense is part of the process for a grad degree. It is very different from calling an undergrad into your office and quizzing them about various parts of their paper. I have had my share of meetings with students where I tell them they have plagiarized their papers. However, I'm not trying to get them to confess. I have the evidence of plagiarism in front of me. The purpose of the meeting is to tell them this, and then inform them of what happens now based on university policies.

The problem with conducting an impromptu oral exam on a student is that the faculty member doesn't have the evidence of plagiarism, but is hoping to acquire it in the meeting. But what would actually constitute evidence of plagiarism? I worry that lots of things that could be considered evidence that the student didn't write the paper, might well have other causes related to the stress of the situation, and the student not being prepared to answer questions about something they might have written a few weeks ago.

Alternatively, I think the hope here is that the student will simply crumple and confess, which sounds good, but over the last ten years all of these studies have come out in criminal cases where people often confess to things they didn't do. At my school, the way plagiarism is handled is that I call the dean to see if this is a first offense, and if it is I can decide on a penalty, ranging from failing the course to a zero on the assignment. The student then has the option to either sign a form accepting the penalty or they could contest the accusation. I could imagine in this scenario, a student saying they plagiarized a paper when they didn't. The power dynamics are problematic here, and so I never want to be making any accusations, or even asking questions suggesting I doubt the student, unless I think the case is strong enough that I'm going to report this no matter what the student says or does.

[dr_codex]

Those of you arguing that you don't care about plagiarism must have institutional policies very different from mine. I'm obliged to report violations of academic honest.

I'm obliged to do it too, and I didn't say I didn't care about plagiarism, nor that I don't investigate it when I suspect it, or report it when I find it. I was merely making a point about priorities and being fair to students. The oral defense is part of the process for a grad degree. It is very different from calling an undergrad into your office and quizzing them about various parts of their paper. I have had my share of meetings with students where I tell them they have plagiarized their papers. However, I'm not trying to get them to confess. I have the evidence of plagiarism in front of me. The purpose of the meeting is to tell them this, and then inform them of what happens now based on university policies.

The problem with conducting an impromptu oral exam on a student is that the faculty member doesn't have the evidence of plagiarism, but is hoping to acquire it in the meeting. But what would actually constitute evidence of plagiarism? I worry that lots of things that could be considered evidence that the student didn't write the paper, might well have other causes related to the stress of the situation, and the student not being prepared to answer questions about something they might have written a few weeks ago.

Alternatively, I think the hope here is that the student will simply crumple and confess, which sounds good, but over the last ten years all of these studies have come out in criminal cases where people often confess to things they didn't do. At my school, the way plagiarism is handled is that I call the dean to see if this is a first offense, and if it is I can decide on a penalty, ranging from failing the course to a zero on the assignment. The student then has the option to either sign a form accepting the penalty or they could contest the accusation. I could imagine in this scenario, a student saying they plagiarized a paper when they didn't. The power dynamics are problematic here, and so I never want to be making any accusations, or even asking questions suggesting I doubt the student, unless I think the case is strong enough that I'm going to report this no matter what the student says or does.

I misconstrued your posts. And I would never accuse a student without proof, even if I were convinced that they did not create the work. I might, however, ask how they conducted their research, what inspired their thesis, and the like. My office-mate requires submission of all sources, in hardcopy. (Stacks of books abound for about a week.)

The bespoke essay problem extends, and metastasizes, in online courses, where stories abound about all work being submitted by another person. Webcams and live proctoring are expensive and laborious; explaining that there may be a follow-on conversation (also time-consuming) seems reasonable.

[traductio]

Our institution is seeing a lot more bespoke papers (and other assignments) now. It's remarkably cheap, and you can include the specific assignment instructions, instructor preferences, etc. in your request. For one of the many sites out there, see
https://www.reddit.com/r/PaperMarket/

Good lord. I shouldn't have looked at that.

[apl68]

Those of you arguing that you don't care about plagiarism must have institutional policies very different from mine. I'm obliged to report violations of academic honest.

I'm obliged to do it too, and I didn't say I didn't care about plagiarism, nor that I don't investigate it when I suspect it, or report it when I find it. I was merely making a point about priorities and being fair to students. The oral defense is part of the process for a grad degree. It is very different from calling an undergrad into your office and quizzing them about various parts of their paper. I have had my share of meetings with students where I tell them they have plagiarized their papers. However, I'm not trying to get them to confess. I have the evidence of plagiarism in front of me. The purpose of the meeting is to tell them this, and then inform them of what happens now based on university policies.

The problem with conducting an impromptu oral exam on a student is that the faculty member doesn't have the evidence of plagiarism, but is hoping to acquire it in the meeting. But what would actually constitute evidence of plagiarism? I worry that lots of things that could be considered evidence that the student didn't write the paper, might well have other causes related to the stress of the situation, and the student not being prepared to answer questions about something they might have written a few weeks ago.

Alternatively, I think the hope here is that the student will simply crumple and confess, which sounds good, but over the last ten years all of these studies have come out in criminal cases where people often confess to things they didn't do. At my school, the way plagiarism is handled is that I call the dean to see if this is a first offense, and if it is I can decide on a penalty, ranging from failing the course to a zero on the assignment. The student then has the option to either sign a form accepting the penalty or they could contest the accusation. I could imagine in this scenario, a student saying they plagiarized a paper when they didn't. The power dynamics are problematic here, and so I never want to be making any accusations, or even asking questions suggesting I doubt the student, unless I think the case is strong enough that I'm going to report this no matter what the student says or does.

I misconstrued your posts. And I would never accuse a student without proof, even if I were convinced that they did not create the work. I might, however, ask how they conducted their research, what inspired their thesis, and the like. My office-mate requires submission of all sources, in hardcopy. (Stacks of books abound for about a week.)

The bespoke essay problem extends, and metastasizes, in online courses, where stories abound about all work being submitted by another person. Webcams and live proctoring are expensive and laborious; explaining that there may be a follow-on conversation (also time-consuming) seems reasonable.

Public libraries do a lot of proctoring for online courses.  We don't charge for it, but it is labor intensive.  The need to arrange to have exams proctored must be a real burden for some teachers of online classes.

[downer]

Public libraries do a lot of proctoring for online courses.  We don't charge for it, but it is labor intensive.  The need to arrange to have exams proctored must be a real burden for some teachers of online classes.

Yes, I have taught online courses where about 15 students arranged to take the final exam through their public libraries. I was emailing with about 6 places and getting the librarians to email me the students' work. Sometimes that went well, sometimes not.

I inquired about another online job at a good school but that would have meant all the students (which could have been up to about 30) doing their own proctored exams. That could have meant dealing with 30 different libraries. That would have been a total nightmare. I didn't pursue it any further.

[Morris Zapp]

I'm wondering now about maybe asking the students (the online ones) to submit their paper and also to submit a short video (1-2 minutes) in which they explain their key arguments in their paper.  I would imagine this would be harder to do if you didn't write it yourself.
I also had the experience of calling an online student and asking a few questions about the paper he had submitted.  He told the dean that I had "ambushed" him and "bullied him".  It did not go well.  It was really obvious that he knew nothing about the paper he had submitted, including even very basic facts ike the title, I believe.  I asked questions like:
-how did you choose your topic?  What got you interested in the subject?
-how did you choose your sources?
Things that presumably you'd be able to answer if you had written the paper yourself. 

[Caracal]

I'm wondering now about maybe asking the students (the online ones) to submit their paper and also to submit a short video (1-2 minutes) in which they explain their key arguments in their paper.  I would imagine this would be harder to do if you didn't write it yourself.
I also had the experience of calling an online student and asking a few questions about the paper he had submitted.  He told the dean that I had "ambushed" him and "bullied him".  It did not go well.  It was really obvious that he knew nothing about the paper he had submitted, including even very basic facts ike the title, I believe.  I asked questions like:
-how did you choose your topic?  What got you interested in the subject?
-how did you choose your sources?
Things that presumably you'd be able to answer if you had written the paper yourself.

Well, maybe, but I think you have to be aware of the dynamics for the student. He might well have not written the paper, but I don't think failure to answer questions like this to your satisfaction is particularly conclusive.

[dr_codex]

I miss Fake Jake.

[Caracal]

I miss Fake Jake.

Yes good old fashioned impersonation.