International News Events: Asked and Answered...

[mamselle]

With everyone's focus exclusively on Ukraine, Kazakhstan's dropped out of the news entirely. What's going on with Russia there?

At the moment, nothing is showing up on Russian activity there, but a huge energy blackout has hit the Central Asian area, including K'stan.

   https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/power-blackout-hits-kazakhstan-kyrgyzstan-uzbekistan-2022-01-25/

Is anyone else a little bit concerned that the USA might be angering the only nation that can destroy us in 30 minutes?  Don't we have things here at home to worry about?

Umm....dominoes?

In the past century, while Viet Nam and Afghanistan are not good examples, earlier efforts at 'appeasement,' 'ignoring it and it will go away,' and 'isolationism' have all backfired....we end up going in later, when it's harder to resolve the issues, costs more, takes more lives, and leaves more allies holding the bag so long they resent us when we finally do get around to extracting our heads from the sand (that's why the French are still mad at us)...

So, whatever issues we have going on here, it would be as if I said, "No, I can't pay attention to my checkbook right now, I have this paper to write"...* we have to be both internally and externally responsible.

The Ukraine/NATO thing could be a serious problem if it's not addressed, it seems to me...and getting tourists and workers out while things are still quiet is simple good sense.

M.

*maybe also not the best example...a-hem...

[mamselle]

The "Us" is larger than just the U.S.A., by the way: it's a NATO concern, overall:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drNBNuLG07E

M>

[Langue_doc]

Photos of Queen Elizabeth, going all the way back to 1929:

https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-60279300

[mamselle]

Trudeau is invoking the Canadian Emergencies Act to deal with the border blockades.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T6J7KgjGd4

M.

[Parasaurolophus]

Trudeau is invoking the Canadian Emergencies Act to deal with the border blockades.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T6J7KgjGd4

M.

I imagine it's largely due to American pressure.

I'm not sure I'm happy about it (though, again, I have nothing but disdain and contempt for the people it's being used against). The precedent seems like a bad one.

It does remind one of his father invoking the War Measures Act. Sigh.

[Stockmann]

It seems to me that when an apartment building full of people was set on fire with the door blocked, the authorities just threw up their hands and did nothing, but when big corporations were inconvenienced the cops were suddenly able and willing to act and the politicians turned to emergency legislation.

[marshwiggle]

Trudeau is invoking the Canadian Emergencies Act to deal with the border blockades.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T6J7KgjGd4

M.

I imagine it's largely due to American pressure.

I'm not sure I'm happy about it (though, again, I have nothing but disdain and contempt for the people it's being used against). The precedent seems like a bad one.

It does remind one of his father invoking the War Measures Act. Sigh.

The terrorists did murder Pierre Laporte.

So there's that.

[traductio]

I tend to avoid political topics on the Fora, so I'll limit my comments here other than to say, yes, Trudeau's evocation of business interests before the welfare of citizens in his announcement yesterday caught my attention, to say the least. Some of my reaction comes from living in Ottawa (we live in a fairly central part of the city, but not in the affected neighbourhoods), where people's frustrations with police inaction, if not outright complicity, have risen to exceptionally high levels. I walk to school with my kids watching for trucks whose drivers have been harassing kids for wearing masks. (That much has reached into my neighbourhood, but not my kids' schools.)

It would not have been necessary to invoke the Canadian Emergencies Act if the municipal and provincial police had done what they were supposed to do.

I'm stopping now because I have no desire to participate in a political discussion here.

The protestors are digging in downtown.

[Parasaurolophus]

The terrorists did murder Pierre Laporte.

So there's that.

The invocation of the WMA remains controversial to this day.

But let's be clear: Laporte was murdered the day after it was invoked. It was invoked in response to his and Cross's kidnapping (despite years of bombing mailboxes in Westmount), not his murder.

[marshwiggle]

The terrorists did murder Pierre Laporte.

So there's that.

The invocation of the WMA remains controversial to this day.

But let's be clear: Laporte was murdered the day after it was invoked. It was invoked in response to his and Cross's kidnapping (despite years of bombing mailboxes in Westmount), not his murder.

The government certainly cracked down quickly on those leftists, didn't they.
And after just a couple of kidnappings; talk about over-reaction!

[Parasaurolophus]

The government certainly cracked down quickly on those leftists, didn't they.
And after just a couple of kidnappings; talk about over-reaction!

This is perhaps not the thread to have this discussion in, but I would contend that this is the sort of thing the police deal with every day. I would even go so far as to suggest that they're better equipped to deal with it than the Canadian Armed Forces, then and now.

I would also suggest--and I know this is controversial--that bombings and kidnappings are not the same thing as protesting, and that if someone thinks invoking the War Measures Act wasn't warranted in the former case, consistency seems to demand that they not think its modern equivalent is warranted in the latter. You may be comfortable with hypocrisy, but I try to avoid it.

That said, I will gladly concede that blasting mechanically-amplified noise for sixteen or more hours a day in a residential neighbourhood, camping overnight for weeks on end, and harassing members of the public goes beyond the normal and acceptable bounds of protest. Whether it warrants invoking the Emergencies Act, however, is another matter. We'll see what the automatic inquiry says, but my understanding of the legal requirement is that it's on pretty shaky ground, this not actually being a dire national emergency with a clear and present danger to the country. I'm also not really clear on what new powers it grants that are not currently available to various levels of government, which makes it hard to determine how necessary it is. The Prime Minister has certainly not done a good (or even adequate) job of communicating that.

[mamselle]

This is perhaps not the thread to have this discussion in...

Actually, while no-one can control how a thread goes once they've started it, this seems like a discussion consistent with the thread's title.

Starting another thread on the Canadian issues would also make sense.

But there are certainly enough interested parties on this forum for a respectful, multivalent discussion, so I don't see a problem with it either way.

M. 

[marshwiggle]

I would also suggest--and I know this is controversial--that bombings and kidnappings are not the same thing as protesting, and that if someone thinks invoking the War Measures Act wasn't warranted in the former case, consistency seems to demand that they not think its modern equivalent is warranted in the latter. You may be comfortable with hypocrisy, but I try to avoid it.

If "protesting" includes intimidation and harassment, (like of people at the soup kitchen by protesters wanting free food), looting and burning, (as happened in some places in 2020), and basically crippling the economy (which is not just about "business; people wind up losing jobs, not paying rent, and becoming homeless,) not being able to get to hospitals, etc., then it's a very fine distinction between that kind of extortion and actual kidnapping.

I don't care if people are doing it to try and stop child pornography, or any other noble cause. Once the methods undermine the democratic process, it's a problem.

MLK, Ghandi, etc. based their actions on defining what lines they would NOT cross; i.e. violence. Their ultimate success came from the public seeing that and admiring their high moral standards, NOT their willingness to just make life as unbearable as possible for as many people as possible.

That said, I will gladly concede that blasting mechanically-amplified noise for sixteen or more hours a day in a residential neighbourhood, camping overnight for weeks on end, and harassing members of the public goes beyond the normal and acceptable bounds of protest.

Every protester ever has had their own definition of what this is.

[Parasaurolophus]

You know that MLK advocated direct action and civil disobedience, right? And that while he didn't think rioting was useful, he did sympathize with rioters, saying thatheir anger was justified?

I don't support these people in any way. But that doesn't mean I think they need to be brutalized. Where you're concerned, I worry that no protest an ever meet your criteria for being "peaceful". (This is a general concern, not one about these neo-nazi-truckers.)

[marshwiggle]

You know that MLK advocated direct action and civil disobedience, right? And that while he didn't think rioting was useful, he did sympathize with rioters, saying that their anger was justified?

NO-ONE likes wearing a mask.
NO-ONE likes travel restrictions.
NO-ONE likes having to show vaccine passports to enter places.
...
I haven't heard ANYONE say they don't understand the protester's frustration.What is at issue IS THEIR BEHAVIOUR.

I don't support these people in any way. But that doesn't mean I think they need to be brutalized. Where you're concerned, I worry that no protest an ever meet your criteria for being "peaceful". (This is a general concern, not one about these neo-nazi-truckers.)

Any protest that relies on forcing compliance with the protesters' will, rather than on convincing a majority of people of the merit of their cause, is a problem. When extortion overcomes the rule of laws made by democratically-elected governments, then you basically have mob rule.