The Fora: A Higher Education Community

9d to go.  My online class looks like this:
1/3 Will Pass (if they pass the final)
1/3 Might Pass (if they pass the final)
1/3 Will Not Pass under any circumstances

The begging emails have begun....to fall on deaf ears.

Besides the issue of a school likely taking advantage of a student by allowing endless retakes, rather than making the student deal with the reality that he should not be allowed to continue in major X, well...

I recall,  years back, when entering grad school, attending a lecture for new grad teaching fellows, given by a dean, who was a biology prof of some sort, who also taught a summer school course at the uni's med school.  I forget what the course was, but at this time (1989), this course was one that the AMA required of all med students, who were supposed to pass this class with whatever the required pass grade was, and they were required to only get two chances to take the class, after which, on two failures, they would be washed out of med school with no chance of return.   The summer school version dean taught was the make-up session for students who had failed the first time.  Therefore, she knew that any student who failed was out of med school, doc dreams shattered, etc.   That meant she tried to be as charitable as possible-- she said that every summer, the students ended up in three categories, the obvious clear passes, the obvious clear failures, and... the bubblers.  She said she looked at each individual bubbler and tried to give them, as much as possible, the benefit of the doubt, whilst recalling this salient point: whomever I pass here could be operating on my grandmother in five years.

Quote from: mythbuster on November 29, 2023, 08:29:40 AMWe had to institute the two strikes and you are out rule after one student infamously failed a senior level required course six different times. The real kicker to the story is that at that time, we only had one faculty member who taught the course (we now have 4). So they took it 6 times with the same faculty member!

Some years back I taught freshman comp as an adjunct at a very large community college (at least 20K students). One of my students failed my class three times in a row, to my utter amazement: Stu had dozens of other sections from which to choose, including several that met at the exact same time as my classes.

AR.

Quote from: AvidReader on November 30, 2023, 08:11:59 PM

Quote from: mythbuster on November 29, 2023, 08:29:40 AMWe had to institute the two strikes and you are out rule after one student infamously failed a senior level required course six different times. The real kicker to the story is that at that time, we only had one faculty member who taught the course (we now have 4). So they took it 6 times with the same faculty member!

Some years back I taught freshman comp as an adjunct at a very large community college (at least 20K students). One of my students failed my class three times in a row, to my utter amazement: Stu had dozens of other sections from which to choose, including several that met at the exact same time as my classes.

AR.

This sounds like some kind of dystopian Groundhog Day scenario.

Quote from: AvidReader on November 30, 2023, 08:11:59 PM

Quote from: mythbuster on November 29, 2023, 08:29:40 AMWe had to institute the two strikes and you are out rule after one student infamously failed a senior level required course six different times. The real kicker to the story is that at that time, we only had one faculty member who taught the course (we now have 4). So they took it 6 times with the same faculty member!

Some years back I taught freshman comp as an adjunct at a very large community college (at least 20K students). One of my students failed my class three times in a row, to my utter amazement: Stu had dozens of other sections from which to choose, including several that met at the exact same time as my classes.

AR.

I've had that happen several times. This past spring, I had a student taking Comp I for the sixth time (second in a row with me).  She failed again.

Quote from: AmLitHist on December 01, 2023, 08:28:34 AM

Quote from: AvidReader on November 30, 2023, 08:11:59 PM

Quote from: mythbuster on November 29, 2023, 08:29:40 AMWe had to institute the two strikes and you are out rule after one student infamously failed a senior level required course six different times. The real kicker to the story is that at that time, we only had one faculty member who taught the course (we now have 4). So they took it 6 times with the same faculty member!

Some years back I taught freshman comp as an adjunct at a very large community college (at least 20K students). One of my students failed my class three times in a row, to my utter amazement: Stu had dozens of other sections from which to choose, including several that met at the exact same time as my classes.

AR.

I've had that happen several times. This past spring, I had a student taking Comp I for the sixth time (second in a row with me).  She failed again.

I have a student re-taking my online asynchronous course this term. The assignments are pretty much the same each time I offer the class. He has not even bothered to submit the assignments he completed last term, so is slated to earn an even lower F (if there were such a thing) this term. I don't really understand the point of signing up for a class if you do not plan to even attempt the work...

I think that allowing students to take and fail classes over and over again, really any more than three times, and that's pushing it, amounts to fraud on the part of the institution. To keep taking these students' money (whether it's their own money, their parent's money, or loans) when it's pretty darn clear they are never going to get a degree is disgusting. But hey, it keeps enrollment numbers up, right?

Quote from: EdnaMode on December 01, 2023, 08:41:55 AMI think that allowing students to take and fail classes over and over again, really any more than three times, and that's pushing it, amounts to fraud on the part of the institution. To keep taking these students' money (whether it's their own money, their parent's money, or loans) when it's pretty darn clear they are never going to get a degree is disgusting. But hey, it keeps enrollment numbers up, right?

I really hope that there are not many schools out there that would stoop that low, at least outside the avowedly for-profit sector.

I am at a compass point public Uni and we pendulum swing between allowing multiple repeats and instituting strong pre-req requirements (must have a B or better in the pre-req to enroll). It all depends on which metric the admins are most worried about at that moment.

Signs right now are we might be swinging back towards higher standards as the failure rates are truly alarming. I will enjoy it while it lasts.

Quote from: apl68 on December 01, 2023, 10:47:13 AM

Quote from: EdnaMode on December 01, 2023, 08:41:55 AMI think that allowing students to take and fail classes over and over again, really any more than three times, and that's pushing it, amounts to fraud on the part of the institution. To keep taking these students' money (whether it's their own money, their parent's money, or loans) when it's pretty darn clear they are never going to get a degree is disgusting. But hey, it keeps enrollment numbers up, right?

I really hope that there are not many schools out there that would stoop that low, at least outside the avowedly for-profit sector.

I'm at an open-door CC, and 2 of our 4 campuses are in economically poor/disadvantaged areas. I can't remember the last time I haven't had at least one (and usually more) student who's here on the 12/15/20-year plan. Usually there will be a gap or two for academic and/or financial aid suspension, then back they come.

A reminder of what can go wrong late in the semester:

Late Friday afternoon the daughter of a library staff member, who is a senior in college, was involved in a major road accident.  Another driver wandered into her lane and hit head-on.  Her vehicle flipped and caught fire.  She crawled out through a window in time and called for help.  She was not injured beyond being badly shaken and bruised.  The other driver, an older man, had to be airlifted to Little Rock.  If he lives, he may lose a limb.

The daughter had to spend most of Friday evening at the emergency room getting a precautionary check-up, and so was unable to complete and submit her last-ever college assignment.  Her college ID and other IDs were also destroyed--which makes her unable to present her college ID to collect her cap and gown for her graduation this coming Friday.

She is now frantically e-mailing assorted faculty and administrators to try to get everything straightened out in time to keep her from missing her graduation.  I hope this last-minute emergency doesn't cause any head-desk moments on the part of those she is contacting.  At least it is a legitimate emergency, and not a product of student negligence or goofiness.

QuoteI'm at an open-door CC, and 2 of our 4 campuses are in economically poor/disadvantaged areas. I can't remember the last time I haven't had at least one (and usually more) student who's here on the 12/15/20-year plan. Usually there will be a gap or two for academic and/or financial aid suspension, then back they come.

I've been at my cc here for 11 years, I have a student who was in one of the very first classes I taught who is still taking classes. He ends up in one program for three years or so before he switches, or is encouraged to switch, to another one. I think he is one his fourth major, I assume at this point his parents think of us as adult day care. He clearly has some form of ADHD that is untreated, he told me his parents don't believe in medication so here he is at almost 30 years old still kicking around.

IT services emailed to ask if they could delete my Moodle course shells, since they take up a lot of space (4 gigs--they're mostly online courses, so...).

No. Absolutely not.

Dear snowflakes,
On the essay exam question about using behavior research to improve zoo animal welfare, you were asked to give 3 examples.

3 instances of giving animals food choice is NOT 3 examples, it is one, 3 times.

Well I've got a first for me. Student A's revised paper got flagged by Turnitin. Why? They copied the abstract from Student B's paper. How did they get it? It was their peer review assignment!
   Thankfully, Turnitin gives me not just the abstract, but also the info from the cover page, which includes Student B's name. If not for this cover page info, I would not know which student they had copied from.