2020 Elections

[spork]

All true, but I don't hire a President to fix my toilets.

Anyway, the outcomes of local and state races have a greater effect on people's day-to-day lives. How many people know the name of their town council or state assembly representative? I grew up in a town run by a board of selectmen -- three people. And the town clerk. So four. There was a K-12 school district of five adjoining towns with a school board and a superintendent. That was basically it. Everyone knew who they were because they were neighbors. Woe to the nearest selectman or school board member if the street didn't get plowed after a snowstorm or the school bus didn't run on time.

[writingprof]

2)  apl is right to note that Trump is and continues to do enormous damage to the evangelical church.   Many  Millennials and Gen Zers, even those raised in evangelical homes, are running away from the church in disgust, and many will not be back.   Given the manifest sins and malfeasance of Americans, I generally refer to Trump as God's judgment against America.

I don't disagree, but it's worth noting that Trump does best among "evangelicals" who never go to church.  Non-Christians, in other words.  In my own conservative denomination, the Bible is preached, the pews are full, and dislike of Trump is pretty universal.

[Descartes]

As though young people weren't already leaving in huge numbers BEFORE Trump.

[kaysixteen]

Not like this, no.   Trump and evangelical obsequious obeisance and power-seeking towards him are vastly increasing the revulsion and disgust younger people, including those raised in evangelical homes, towards not only Trump, but also the evangelical church that supports him.  Writingprof is absolutely correct to note that most of Trump's hard-core 'evangelical' supporters are largely notional ones, nominal, etc., not regular churchgoers, full of, ahem, well you get the idea, but many much more serious evangelical believers have also caught the Trump virus, such as the people in my church.  Try as I might, I cannot convince them even to consider arguments against him.

[writingprof]

I had little patience with Christians (or "Christians") who voted for Trump in '16.  I feel differently now and will almost certainly vote for him myself.  How else can one register one's disgust with the riots, BLM, Antifa, et cetera?

[dr_codex]

I had little patience with Christians (or "Christians") who voted for Trump in '16.  I feel differently now and will almost certainly vote for him myself. How else can one register one's disgust with the riots, BLM, Antifa, et cetera?

How, indeed.

https://tenor.com/OHV6.gif[url]]https://tenor.com/OHV6.gif//

[kaysixteen]

One might say that the Democrats are not responsible for those riots, which have always been consistently condemned by Biden, etc., but that Trump actually shares a good part of the blame, for fostering the atmosphere of racism, etc., that leads white cops to think they can shoot black guys in the back, etc., and for his incompetence in dealing with covid, which has greatly increased tensions nationwide.

[jimbogumbo]

I had little patience with Christians (or "Christians") who voted for Trump in '16.  I feel differently now and will almost certainly vote for him myself.  How else can one register one's disgust with the riots, BLM, Antifa, et cetera?

If I felt as you I would simply not vote in this election. I have made that choice (rarely) in state elections, but would not be uncomfortable opting to in a Presidential race. I'd be depressed, yes I would. But I'd do it.

[writingprof]

One might say that the Democrats are not responsible for those riots . . .

The people who are rioting are themselves Democrats.

. . . which have always been consistently condemned by Biden, etc. . .

Biden has not condemned Antifa by name, nor has he acknowledged that many of BLM's leaders are insane Marxist terrorists.

. . . but that Trump actually shares a good part of the blame, for fostering the atmosphere of racism, etc., that leads white cops to think they can shoot black guys in the back, etc . . .

This is just silly.  No cop is doing political analysis in the heat of the moment.  And if any are, the analysis is running in the other direction: "If I shoot this guy, I'll be despised by everyone for the rest of my life."

. . . and for his incompetence in dealing with covid, which has greatly increased tensions nationwide.

It's not at all clear to me that he has been incompetent.  Do you simultaneously believe that Andrew Cuomo is a COVID hero?  If so, bless your heart.

[Parasaurolophus]

...and Obama still refuses to say 'radical Islamic terrorism', mirite?


[/sarcasm, in case it wasn't clear]

[mahagonny]

I had little patience with Christians (or "Christians") who voted for Trump in '16.  I feel differently now and will almost certainly vote for him myself.  How else can one register one's disgust with the riots, BLM, Antifa, et cetera?

This is the problem. With so much insanity around it is getting more costly to vote for someone who's the lesser of two evils.

[lightning]

I had little patience with Christians (or "Christians") who voted for Trump in '16.  I feel differently now and will almost certainly vote for him myself.  How else can one register one's disgust with the riots, BLM, Antifa, et cetera?

By the same token, I'm voting, at the very least, to register my disgust with organized militias showing up to mano-a-mano fights with visible semi-automatic weapons, with every intention to intimidate & taunt visibly unarmed protesters into an excuse to shoot in self-defense.

[Anselm]

I found you can possibly accomplish, and definitely learn, a great deal just by talking and listening to the people who do a lot of work in your area--my area is mostly red, although I am seeing more Democratic signs than I did four years back. One example--the roto-rooter guy was busy in my basement, and we were getting into some deep discussions about my basement toilet, something of a fixture in this part of the state. He went on to explain that I should hold on to this toilet as long as I could, with its appropriately powerful flush, as opposed to water-saving toilets that flush less. Pipes were built a certain way to accommodate a certain amount of flush, roughly speaking.

Now this was not long after President Trump was getting mocked for going on about flushing and re-flushing toilets. And I, too, thought he was just spewing the vomit from his mind as is his wont. And at that moment with the roto-rooter guy, I realized--the President was talking about a real thing. And there were probably a lot of people listening who recognized what he was saying as a real thing. I'm not going to say, "a lot of people don't realize this about toilets"--I may be the only one on this forum who didn't know that before. But just chatting and listening, you can connect with mutual respect.

I will be vague on details but there is a famous story about some east coast politician who tried to bond with blue collar guys in a tavern and ended up ordering fine cognac.   This would have been in the late 60's or early 70's.   Can someone here maybe flesh this out for me?   

I just don't trust politicians who have never worked outside of a law office.  I want more farmer statesmen like Cato.

[writingprof]

I want more farmer statesmen like Cato.

So, basically, rule by slave owners?  Sounds good to me, but will the protesters go for it?

[spork]

Long but good analysis of Susan Collins' fall from grace among Maine voters:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/maine-turned-on-susan-collins.html.

Summary: Trump destroys everything he comes into contact with.