Vaccination nation

[onthefringe]

Forget about any sources from *anything* like the WCC, or any denomination that would be a member thereof.   My pastor, a 65yo guy who has had two *series* of open heart surgeries over the last 15 years, amongst other surgeries and med procedures, refuses to vax, and says so from the pulpit.  I suspect that most congregants have done similarly, and I know of only one couple, both 80+, whom I know to have vaxxed.   I confess I am underwhelmed and am fighting the tendency to think that should pastor or his wife get covid, I will not have much sympathy for them.   They are unambiguously anti-vax, and consume large quantities of propaganda.   They would only listen to sources that come from perspectives/ people, they respect.

Your pastor is a piece of work. Have you considered leaving that congregation?

Sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Unfortunately, there are many young children who are still not vaccinated, all of whom are too young to advocate for themselves.

\

Agree with all the rest of this, but we need to stop using young children as an example of people at particular risk from Covid. They are at very low risk of serious disease. Don't need to scare parents unnecessarily.

But, they (kids) are a great source of mild cases that can be passed on to people who had poor responses to the vaccine or who can't get a vaccine for some reason. And a great pool to develop new variants.

[Caracal]

Forget about any sources from *anything* like the WCC, or any denomination that would be a member thereof.   My pastor, a 65yo guy who has had two *series* of open heart surgeries over the last 15 years, amongst other surgeries and med procedures, refuses to vax, and says so from the pulpit.  I suspect that most congregants have done similarly, and I know of only one couple, both 80+, whom I know to have vaxxed.   I confess I am underwhelmed and am fighting the tendency to think that should pastor or his wife get covid, I will not have much sympathy for them.   They are unambiguously anti-vax, and consume large quantities of propaganda.   They would only listen to sources that come from perspectives/ people, they respect.

Your pastor is a piece of work. Have you considered leaving that congregation?

Sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Unfortunately, there are many young children who are still not vaccinated, all of whom are too young to advocate for themselves.

\

Agree with all the rest of this, but we need to stop using young children as an example of people at particular risk from Covid. They are at very low risk of serious disease. Don't need to scare parents unnecessarily.

But, they (kids) are a great source of mild cases that can be passed on to people who had poor responses to the vaccine or who can't get a vaccine for some reason. And a great pool to develop new variants.

Certainly can contribute to transmission, although most good studies show that they tend to transmit less than adults. Not arguing against vaccinating kids.

[lightning]

Forget about any sources from *anything* like the WCC, or any denomination that would be a member thereof.   My pastor, a 65yo guy who has had two *series* of open heart surgeries over the last 15 years, amongst other surgeries and med procedures, refuses to vax, and says so from the pulpit.  I suspect that most congregants have done similarly, and I know of only one couple, both 80+, whom I know to have vaxxed.   I confess I am underwhelmed and am fighting the tendency to think that should pastor or his wife get covid, I will not have much sympathy for them.   They are unambiguously anti-vax, and consume large quantities of propaganda.   They would only listen to sources that come from perspectives/ people, they respect.

Your pastor is a piece of work. Have you considered leaving that congregation?

Sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Unfortunately, there are many young children who are still not vaccinated, all of whom are too young to advocate for themselves.

\

Agree with all the rest of this, but we need to stop using young children as an example of people at particular risk from Covid. They are at very low risk of serious disease. Don't need to scare parents unnecessarily.

But, they (kids) are a great source of mild cases that can be passed on to people who had poor responses to the vaccine or who can't get a vaccine for some reason. And a great pool to develop new variants.

Certainly can contribute to transmission, although most good studies show that they tend to transmit less than adults. Not arguing against vaccinating kids.

According to a 7/12/2021 Washington Post article, 99.5 percent of all Covid-19-related deaths in the United States occur among unvaccinated people; 0.5 percent of Covid deaths occur among vaccinated people.

According to a recent Post-ABC News poll, 86 percent of Democrats have received at least one vaccine dose, while only 45 percent of Republicans have done so.

It's hard to know for sure, but I will go out on a limb and speculate that it's mainly the people who would refuse a vaccine during a pandemic, in order to make a political statement, who are the ones that are dying.

If this is the case, this will all work itself out naturally, as these lunatics die out one at a time, and lose their political power, one vote at a time.

I think that any political leadership trying to convince these lunatics to get vaccinated is pointless. Efforts should be directed to see if the Delta Variant and others pose a danger and to further protect the vaccinated population with boosters, if necessary. Bring on the super-spreader events, and let the anti-vaxxers learn their lessons the hard way. When they start to see that they are losing votes, the nut jobs that run CPAC will be changing their tune.

[dismalist]

If this is the case, this will all work itself out naturally, as these lunatics die out one at a time, and lose their political power, one vote at a time.

Those dead lunatics were all old. We'll get old, too. Maybe we'll become lunatics as well. :-)

[Caracal]

Forget about any sources from *anything* like the WCC, or any denomination that would be a member thereof.   My pastor, a 65yo guy who has had two *series* of open heart surgeries over the last 15 years, amongst other surgeries and med procedures, refuses to vax, and says so from the pulpit.  I suspect that most congregants have done similarly, and I know of only one couple, both 80+, whom I know to have vaxxed.   I confess I am underwhelmed and am fighting the tendency to think that should pastor or his wife get covid, I will not have much sympathy for them.   They are unambiguously anti-vax, and consume large quantities of propaganda.   They would only listen to sources that come from perspectives/ people, they respect.

Your pastor is a piece of work. Have you considered leaving that congregation?

Sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Unfortunately, there are many young children who are still not vaccinated, all of whom are too young to advocate for themselves.

\

Agree with all the rest of this, but we need to stop using young children as an example of people at particular risk from Covid. They are at very low risk of serious disease. Don't need to scare parents unnecessarily.

But, they (kids) are a great source of mild cases that can be passed on to people who had poor responses to the vaccine or who can't get a vaccine for some reason. And a great pool to develop new variants.

Certainly can contribute to transmission, although most good studies show that they tend to transmit less than adults. Not arguing against vaccinating kids.

According to a 7/12/2021 Washington Post article, 99.5 percent of all Covid-19-related deaths in the United States occur among unvaccinated people; 0.5 percent of Covid deaths occur among vaccinated people.

According to a recent Post-ABC News poll, 86 percent of Democrats have received at least one vaccine dose, while only 45 percent of Republicans have done so.

It's hard to know for sure, but I will go out on a limb and speculate that it's mainly the people who would refuse a vaccine during a pandemic, in order to make a political statement, who are the ones that are dying.

If this is the case, this will all work itself out naturally, as these lunatics die out one at a time, and lose their political power, one vote at a time.

I think that any political leadership trying to convince these lunatics to get vaccinated is pointless. Efforts should be directed to see if the Delta Variant and others pose a danger and to further protect the vaccinated population with boosters, if necessary. Bring on the super-spreader events, and let the anti-vaxxers learn their lessons the hard way. When they start to see that they are losing votes, the nut jobs that run CPAC will be changing their tune.

The problem is that it doesn't work this way, either in terms of the deadliness of the disease or who is vaccinated. When I look at vaccination rates in my area, I certainly see a lot of low vaccination areas among rural republican voters, but there are also a lot among poor minority communities.

The other issue is that vaccines work a lot better when they reduce the incidence of disease. Breakthrough infections are mild and non concerning for  most people, but there are people who are still at risk and will continue to be as long as long as there's a lot of Covid out there.

[lightning]

Forget about any sources from *anything* like the WCC, or any denomination that would be a member thereof.   My pastor, a 65yo guy who has had two *series* of open heart surgeries over the last 15 years, amongst other surgeries and med procedures, refuses to vax, and says so from the pulpit.  I suspect that most congregants have done similarly, and I know of only one couple, both 80+, whom I know to have vaxxed.   I confess I am underwhelmed and am fighting the tendency to think that should pastor or his wife get covid, I will not have much sympathy for them.   They are unambiguously anti-vax, and consume large quantities of propaganda.   They would only listen to sources that come from perspectives/ people, they respect.

Your pastor is a piece of work. Have you considered leaving that congregation?

Sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Unfortunately, there are many young children who are still not vaccinated, all of whom are too young to advocate for themselves.

\

Agree with all the rest of this, but we need to stop using young children as an example of people at particular risk from Covid. They are at very low risk of serious disease. Don't need to scare parents unnecessarily.

But, they (kids) are a great source of mild cases that can be passed on to people who had poor responses to the vaccine or who can't get a vaccine for some reason. And a great pool to develop new variants.

Certainly can contribute to transmission, although most good studies show that they tend to transmit less than adults. Not arguing against vaccinating kids.

According to a 7/12/2021 Washington Post article, 99.5 percent of all Covid-19-related deaths in the United States occur among unvaccinated people; 0.5 percent of Covid deaths occur among vaccinated people.

According to a recent Post-ABC News poll, 86 percent of Democrats have received at least one vaccine dose, while only 45 percent of Republicans have done so.

It's hard to know for sure, but I will go out on a limb and speculate that it's mainly the people who would refuse a vaccine during a pandemic, in order to make a political statement, who are the ones that are dying.

If this is the case, this will all work itself out naturally, as these lunatics die out one at a time, and lose their political power, one vote at a time.

I think that any political leadership trying to convince these lunatics to get vaccinated is pointless. Efforts should be directed to see if the Delta Variant and others pose a danger and to further protect the vaccinated population with boosters, if necessary. Bring on the super-spreader events, and let the anti-vaxxers learn their lessons the hard way. When they start to see that they are losing votes, the nut jobs that run CPAC will be changing their tune.

The problem is that it doesn't work this way, either in terms of the deadliness of the disease or who is vaccinated. When I look at vaccination rates in my area, I certainly see a lot of low vaccination areas among rural republican voters, but there are also a lot among poor minority communities.

The other issue is that vaccines work a lot better when they reduce the incidence of disease. Breakthrough infections are mild and non concerning for  most people, but there are people who are still at risk and will continue to be as long as long as there's a lot of Covid out there.

OK. You have a point about poor minority populations. Certainly, leadership can be applied there.

However, the last time I was paying attention, it wasn't the poor minority communities who were making a public stink about refusing vaccines, and staking their identity to their refusal.

[kaysixteen]

Well I have thought about moving on from this congregation, yes, but I do have some reasons for sticking it out, some of which reasons are good, others sadly not so good.  I was the only person who obeyed the vax mandate when it was still in force, before the vax was available-- that elderly couple I referred to simply did not attend service until they were vaxxed up-- this is why I asked for any suggestions regarding how to convince these folks to vax.  We will see what happens...

[mamselle]

Taking a different tack, I've been following this family over the past few months, but somehow missed this entry in their work:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnbOKH9Oe9s

M.

[lightning]

Forget about any sources from *anything* like the WCC, or any denomination that would be a member thereof.   My pastor, a 65yo guy who has had two *series* of open heart surgeries over the last 15 years, amongst other surgeries and med procedures, refuses to vax, and says so from the pulpit.  I suspect that most congregants have done similarly, and I know of only one couple, both 80+, whom I know to have vaxxed.   I confess I am underwhelmed and am fighting the tendency to think that should pastor or his wife get covid, I will not have much sympathy for them.   They are unambiguously anti-vax, and consume large quantities of propaganda.   They would only listen to sources that come from perspectives/ people, they respect.

Your pastor is a piece of work. Have you considered leaving that congregation?

Sometimes, people have to learn the hard way.

Unfortunately, there are many young children who are still not vaccinated, all of whom are too young to advocate for themselves.

\

Agree with all the rest of this, but we need to stop using young children as an example of people at particular risk from Covid. They are at very low risk of serious disease. Don't need to scare parents unnecessarily.

But, they (kids) are a great source of mild cases that can be passed on to people who had poor responses to the vaccine or who can't get a vaccine for some reason. And a great pool to develop new variants.

Certainly can contribute to transmission, although most good studies show that they tend to transmit less than adults. Not arguing against vaccinating kids.

According to a 7/12/2021 Washington Post article, 99.5 percent of all Covid-19-related deaths in the United States occur among unvaccinated people; 0.5 percent of Covid deaths occur among vaccinated people.

According to a recent Post-ABC News poll, 86 percent of Democrats have received at least one vaccine dose, while only 45 percent of Republicans have done so.

It's hard to know for sure, but I will go out on a limb and speculate that it's mainly the people who would refuse a vaccine during a pandemic, in order to make a political statement, who are the ones that are dying.

If this is the case, this will all work itself out naturally, as these lunatics die out one at a time, and lose their political power, one vote at a time.

I think that any political leadership trying to convince these lunatics to get vaccinated is pointless. Efforts should be directed to see if the Delta Variant and others pose a danger and to further protect the vaccinated population with boosters, if necessary. Bring on the super-spreader events, and let the anti-vaxxers learn their lessons the hard way. When they start to see that they are losing votes, the nut jobs that run CPAC will be changing their tune.

The problem is that it doesn't work this way, either in terms of the deadliness of the disease or who is vaccinated. When I look at vaccination rates in my area, I certainly see a lot of low vaccination areas among rural republican voters, but there are also a lot among poor minority communities.

The other issue is that vaccines work a lot better when they reduce the incidence of disease. Breakthrough infections are mild and non concerning for  most people, but there are people who are still at risk and will continue to be as long as long as there's a lot of Covid out there.

OK. You have a point about poor minority populations. Certainly, leadership can be applied there.

However, the last time I was paying attention, it wasn't the poor minority communities who were making a public stink about refusing vaccines, and staking their identity to their refusal.

A July 6 LA Times article released results of a WP-ABC news poll and gives a few more clues about who is refusing vaccines. Well, I'm not so sure we need clues about this, since some in the Republican party are so pronounced about their views on vaccines.

" . . . according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released over the weekend.

Vaccine hesitancy is much more prevalent among Republicans than Democrats. Only 6% of Democrats said they probably won't get vaccinated, while 47% of Republicans said the same."

It just gets nuttier. There are Republican lawmakers on the state level who are pushing to cast vaccine refusal as a civil right. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/16/republicans-covid-19-vaccine-refusal-legal-protections


Objecting to the vaccine is a political issue for the Republicans.


But there are definitely subtleties when it comes to minority populations, and that shouldn't be discounted.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation polling results published on June 11,

"There were also discrepancies between unvaccinated respondents who said they would 'definitely not' get the vaccine and those who just plan to 'wait and see': The 'definitely not' group is overwhelmingly more white (70% of respondents), Republican (67%) and concentrated in the 30-49 age group (48%)."


"The 'wait and see' group, by contrast, is more evenly divided politically—39% are Democrats and 41% Republicans—and are slightly more likely to be Black or Hispanic (22% Black and 20% Hispanic, versus 5% and 11% in the "definitely not group"), though 72% are still between the ages of 18 and 49."

Minority populations are not completely opposed to vaccines. They are simply being cautious and waiting to see if the vaccines are really safe. Considering things like the Tuskegee Experiments and others, I can't say I blame them. But, at least they are 'wait and see.' It's not a political issue to them.

So, we have a pretty good idea about who is refusing vaccines and possibly why, endangering the USA's climb out of the pandemic. It's a mistake to cast minority populations with Republicans (especially rural Republicans) and casting them both as vaccine objectors. Vaccine objection is a problem of Republican doing and IMO opinion is the biggest obstacle to the easiest solution to getting out of the pandemic.

Here's the fun speculative part, where I introduce my own conspiracy theory: many Republicans see COVID-19 as a manufactured crisis that was created to bring down Trump, so the MAGA Republicans and possibly most Republicans want to bring down Biden with COVID-19, in the same way it brought down Trump. Objecting to the vaccine (like objections to masking) is an objection to Biden & Democrats and is seen as a tool on the path to 2022 and 2024 Republican victories, especially if the USA has to go on lockdown again and the economy tanks and people start losing their jobs.

[kaysixteen]

Perhaps, but what is really much more likely to occur is that in Red State America, these sorts of killer 4th waves are already breaking, whereas here in more cerulean areas, well...  and one might also ask whether a voter living in a place like Tennessee, with its current, ahem, retrograde attitudes towards vaxxing, would see such a disaster as a fault of the Democrats, even if that voter is an up-to-now dedicated Trumper?   And especially  if he is not.

[pgher]

Following up on mamselle's point here, anyone have any experience/ resources, designed to help people convince conservative Christians or other conservative religionists to actually get the damn vax?

https://baptistnews.com/article/my-life-as-a-bad-baseball-player-and-why-you-should-get-vaccinated/

[Morden]

I don't know if this is helpful.

https://www.christiansandthevaccine.com/

[downer]

Do you have to be vaccinated as a faculty member to go to campus in the fall? Has anyone said what will happen to those who refuse to do so?

[spork]

Do you have to be vaccinated as a faculty member to go to campus in the fall? Has anyone said what will happen to those who refuse to do so?

At my university, both employees and students are required to be vaccinated. We have to submit proof. I suppose refusal could be classified as insubordination, resulting in termination.

[Puget]

Do you have to be vaccinated as a faculty member to go to campus in the fall? Has anyone said what will happen to those who refuse to do so?

Yes, everyone on campus has to be, unless they obtain a medical or religious exemption. Students cannot enroll without it (international students returning without a US approved vaccine can get one on campus the first day back). I'm not sure what would happen to faculty and staff who don't (and staff and contract faculty have unions which may have a say in that), but it is unlikely to be much of an issue as 90% of both faculty/staff and students have already submitted their documentation according to our data dashboard. I'm willing to bet most of the remaining 10% are also vaccinated but haven't submitted their documentation yet.